Acheron
2010-04-27 |  | Stacking Help Guide |  |
One of the most common questions I see is "what stacks should I use"
The game doesn`t have any real in-depth guide learn how to stack.
I`ve taken the liberty of writing one, anyone who already knows how to stack, please critique any errors. Anyone who doesn`t know how to stack, please give feedback as to whether it helps or not. If people find it useful I can work on actually hosting it somewhere instead of this download link
Stacking Help Guide
I know a few people have seen it already, but I`ve updated it quite a bit since. All you bored people: read through this while you`re waiting to click research please =)
LOVE AND KISSES,
Acheron
Edited by BadWolf on 2010-04-27
Edited by BadWolf on 2010-04-27 |
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Acheron
99+ day(s) ago | That much I do know lol, its in the guide that any flankers without no retal risk being damaged or wiped. |
ScarletTears
99+ day(s) ago | Stacking/spamming/playing this game is very complex and very risky. there`s always something that could happen and some times weird things just happen which we have to contribute to bugs or stephen math. i don`t think anyone could write a perfect battle guide...especially when you take into account that this game does evolve or change albeit slowly. |
ScarletTears
99+ day(s) ago | technically it could be 4+ Ach....or it could be 10 total...depending on dummies and if you use all ships that lack no retal and no defense you could lose your entire fleet attacking certain spams...un likely but plausible...under normal scenarios you would lose just your top two...but it really depends on your stacking...if you use alot of no retal ships and love using them then it`s bound to become more common for you So losing more than your top two stacks is preventable...albeit not everyone has 10 no retal stacks to throw around. and some prefer other ships. |
Acheron
99+ day(s) ago | I`ve been unable to replicate that scenario, and never knowningly encountered it. But if its 3v1 now I`ll admit defeat and add it to the guide somewhere. Thanks for all the feedback pete/seifer/st |
ScarletTears
99+ day(s) ago | hmm seems seifer beat me to it |
ScarletTears
99+ day(s) ago | Having all your ships killed before the other ship returns fire only happens when something without no retal that has higher range than the opponents spam ship fires on a spam that lacks no defense. and that stack is completely wiped out before the Spam Stack is granted it`s attack that wave...then the spam stack then searches out a stack to attack that wave
and it will only happen as often as you put a non-no retal ship up top and that ship meets a stack lacking no defense on which it can wipe itself. |
Seifer
99+ day(s) ago | If your top stack doesnt have no retal, and has longer range than enemy top stack that doesnt have no defense, it will fire first and wipes itself in the process. The enemy top stack then fires at a random stack. I have encountered this several times, and am unsure whether this is a bug or not |
Acheron
99+ day(s) ago | Even with miner, just put 2 fast building stacks up top (lictor/lyth) and a lot of no-retal ships below it. attack a chlor spam on aggressive. Calc it, you`ll win the battle... you`ll lose a lot of those lictor and lyth, but they rebuild quick, so who cares.
If you have a balanced fleet, with Corundum on top... attacking a huge XE spam. Your corundum will fire first... being longer ranged... and will get slaughtered. The XE will not fire again, it will not attack any stacks in wave 1, it can ONLY target stack 1 and nothing else.
I know what you`re saying, but it doesn`t work that way, otherwise spamming would be way overpowered heh.
And personally I do believe stacking is superior to all other forms of fleets... although it does take a lot more skill, and a bit of luck to take down a good half-spam.
Regardless, I don`t say anywhere in the guide that you`re only allowed to stack, I just say a skilled stacker will own the battlefield, which is more than true. Understanding the game mechanics will allow you to know when its best to stack or spam, or go in between.
Here is a fine example of why stacking is better:
22/04/10
03:11 AM Acheron
29,454,272 xxxxxxx
47,608,787 Win
Acheron`s fleet
K.Hun-Xe Cruiser 50 50 0
K.Hun-Zen Cruiser 50 50 0
G.Quartz Frigate 84 18 66
L.Topaz Cruiser 60 0 60
L.Emerald Destroyer 70 0 70
Ruby Corvette 249 0 249
Strafez Queen 3,000 0 3,000
K.Hun-Li Destroyer 50 50 0
Tourmaline Fighter 380 0 380
G.Agate Fighter 171 0 171
xxxxxx`s fleet
M.Lyth Dreadnought 1,226 708 518
G.Lictor Juggernaught 188 132 56
M.Chlorite Destroyer 10 10 0
F.Sword Destroyer 10 10 0
F.Broadsword Destroyer 10 10 0
Light Corvette Corvette 1 1 0
M.Hal Fighter 1 1 0
Light fighter-drone Fighter 1 1 0
I lose my top 2 stacks and a bit of fleet |
PistolPete
99+ day(s) ago | It is funny that you wrtie k.class as an example. I had wrote an expception for k.class, that i deleted again, as I came to the conclusion that they are a special case. In general Gaurds are more efficient stackers, since you dont have to use a lot turns expensive stacks to make a good fleet. Try to spam shoot at chlor spam down with a spam vs a 10 stacked a.miner fleet.
My point is. If I read what you have written and where a newb, I would get the impression that a 10 stack fleet is superior to a halfspam or spam when fighting, when one knows how things work. That is simply not the case. In the majority of the cases it is not. Some find fully stacked fleets more beautiful, and they are welcome. Some like to have a good Win/loss ratio, and other people like to be efficient and conquer the galaxy. People play for different reasons.
About how the battle mechanics work. What will often happen in round 1 is: Your 1st stack shoots at the enemy spam. Your first stacks dies before the enemy stack gets to fire back. Since the enemy stack dont get to shoot at the 1st stack it will often shoot at some other random stack.
About the bug compensation:
I am not sure anyone compensates this. What if your UW is stopped by the double attack bug - will that be compensated too? |
Acheron
99+ day(s) ago | I did mention that spamming and partial spamming have their places, but stacking is far superior. I`ll direct my comments at your comments.
@the bit about colony`s lost vs fleet lost
I`ve never run the numbers myself, that came straight from stephen... so who knows how accurate it is
@ This is not completely true. If two empires fires at you at the exact same second and both win 2 cols, you will loose 4 cols.
This is a bug and you`ll be compensated if you lose more than 3 colonies, according to the mechanics of the battle system you cannot lose more than 3 colonies without refreshing your DP by building more ships.
@ The spamming vs 10 stack part. I would consider it very likely that that the spam get to kill the top stack and a random of the other stacks 1st round. so in the end it ends up killing 3 stacks when the battle is over plus one of the of the retal stacks if they get to flank the top stack.
In wave 1, your stack 1 will attack the spam, and the spam will attack your stack 1. That is all, even if your stack is immediately wiped out, the spam will only target stack 1, it cannot kill anything else. Then in wave 2 it targets your second stack, and only your second stack. The only way you can lose more than 2 stacks is if your other 8 stacks do not have no-retal and the spam doesn`t have no-defense
Spamming is fast and easy, and half spams are good for taking down stackers. But that`s about it... if you`re looking to build a good fleet that will kill someone while taking minimal collateral damage, and avoiding having everyone target you with some other spam *cough* K class at your chlor spam *cough* then stacking is the way to go.
Besides, newbs don`t need spamming guides, that`s easy... lol that`s why I wrote a stacking guide... its much more difficult |
PistolPete
99+ day(s) ago | I like the basic way you start it up. Although there is a little error:
"3 Colonies captured if Defender losses 80% power rating
2 Colonies captured if Defender losses 50% power rating
1 Colony captured if Defender losses 10% power rating
If the defender loses 3 colonies, or more than 50% of their fleet in a single battle then they will
get Damage Protection. "
this cant be true.. I havent looked up the numbers lately but you can DP a person and only get 1 planet. I think he gets DP if he looses 40% of his fleet.
"(NOTE: A player can be attacked multiple times before gaining DP, but can only lose up to 3
colonies, no matter what)"
This is not completely true. If two empires fires at you at the exact same second and both win 2 cols, you will loose 4 cols.
The spamming vs 10 stack part. I would consider it very likely that that the spam get to kill the top stack and a random of the other stacks 1st round. so in the end it ends up killing 3 stacks when the battle is over plus one of the of the retal stacks if they get to flank the top stack.
I think you are overselling the concept of battling with 10 stacks a bit. In general i think 10 stacks are much more useful if you are the defender than if you are the attacker. There are plenty situation were half spams or spams works much more efficient than a full stack. Try taking down a chlor spam for instance..
My advide for a newb would be to try to build the ships that he knows will do good against what he expects to meet at the battlefield. Put in a link for the battlesimulator somewhere.
20% of the time make 1/2 stack spams
10% of the time make 3 stack spams
40% of the time make 4/5 stack spams
30% build a 10 stacks fleet.
This will make you way more unpredictable, than if you got 10 stacks most of the time. |
HoneyBucket{HH}
99+ day(s) ago | It`s lovely Acheron, very nice job =) |
Acheron
99+ day(s) ago | OKay so I`ve updated this... I completely redid the flanking section, and added a real battle (thanks arch)
Please let me know if this makes it more confusing or not lol
http://www.filefront.com/16283655/MasterStackers.pdf |
ScarletTears
99+ day(s) ago | the pr of Chimaera in you example is wrong...but other than that it looks like a good newbie introduction into the world of battling and stacking |
Acheron
99+ day(s) ago | Yeah, I`ll come up with a terran vs miner battle to replace 1,2,3 with, so that way you have something to actually reference.
The stack moving up thing is there somewhere, but I think its not until the very bottom of the guide, I`ll add it somewhere more relevant... like the flanking section
Thanks for all the input bro lol, not everyone thinks like I do, so I like someone else to tell me what doesn`t actually make sense xD |
ArchAng3l
99+ day(s) ago | Maybe to make thing clear at the first glance, instead of using stack 1,2,3 etc.. we can use real battle stack..
pick at well rounder battle, and u can explain the flanking part and the stack moving up.. |
Acheron
99+ day(s) ago | Aye, took me awhile to figure that all out. But if you read the fine print of the guide its all in there... there`s just so much other crud it is easily overlooked. Stacking is a tricky beast lol |
ArchAng3l
99+ day(s) ago | all move up accordingly sound valid..
as for spam, usually first stack got wiped.. as u said, the stack 2-10 move up... so stack 2 which became stack 1 in the second wave will get wipe by the spam... hence usually top 2 stack get wipe... |
Acheron
99+ day(s) ago | They all get bumped up, but stay in the same order regardless of PR change. I had to ask BadWolf about that one lol, because it confused me as to why if a spam hits you, you ALWAYS lose your top 2 stacks, instead of stack 1 plus a random stack...
But in your example, stack 4 becomes stack 3, stack 5 becomes stack 4... etc...etc... then the attackers stack 10 gets to flank |
ArchAng3l
99+ day(s) ago | i myself is even not sure of this answer.. i knew it b4, but forgot.. lol.. i feel it will be good to add in...
it`s obvious when stack 10 got wiped and the top 9 stack will continue to hit each other in the same order regardless of change in pr..
however what if the enemy stack 3 got wiped? in the second wave, which stack will replace stack 3? the stack will move up to become stack 3 and the rest of the stack will move up? or is it determine by pr? |
