420BadWolf
2009-02-10 |  | D.Class Ships |  |
How would everyone feel about making D.Class uncapturable?
possible pros and cons
Pros: Virals would have 2 less spam ships that can quickly and cheaply be spammed to high pr, marauders would have a class of ships entirely all there own, and may lead to more diversity between virals
Cons: shiplist reset for virals (which also leads to lots of work for staff but no problem if agreed upon), virals lose 3 possible ships, and other races have hard time cause they can`t expect virals to angel or bull spam any more (would this really be bad tho?) |
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archaeoptyrex
99+ day(s) ago | Just as a comment for the people who suggest virals shouldn`t explore -- just how many c4`s have you built?
Do you realise how pathetically small c4`s are when you have to fight and retain only 1 planet at a time? Do you realise how expensive (undoably) so this would be on the slower servers?
Remember that the arguments that maru/collective can`t explore either fails for the following reasons:
1) Marauders plunder
2) Non-plundering (food) Marus can use U ferts
3) Collectives get big +bonus on agri and so cluster sizes don`t have to be big |
archaeoptyrex
99+ day(s) ago | I don`t mind too much one way or another if virals can get D-class or not.
What I do mind is the rule that the full ship list has to wiped. So how are even moderately established virals supposed to get ships from scratch, whilst at the same time having a reasonable chance of defending?
Are you going to hand out 5 of each ship they already have (excluding the G and D classes)?
Also you`re asking (by asking, forcing) people to go to 0-ships -- isn`t this suicidal also? |
christos
99+ day(s) ago | I agree with Deathroe. I`m a viral and I don`t mind losing D. class (actually think it will be better for the game) but it will be hard for me to RE another Marauder ship. I guess good marauder ships will start filtering through the virals after a while. |
Fodderman
99+ day(s) ago | im for the removal of d.class for virals, anything that takes away the high pr spamming power of virals is a ok for me :) |
collective1
99+ day(s) ago | yes please clarify this.
also does this imply that marauder upkeep (that old thread) will not be reviewed anymore? |
Deathroe
99+ day(s) ago | I am asking for a clarification: I`m viral and currently use both D Bullhead and D angel, sounds like I have to give these up ??? If so when ?? do I get to choose two other Maruader ships or (I`m OK with this) I have to win and reverse engineer two more ships ??
Thanks :P |
Jammer
99+ day(s) ago | I wouldn`t mind it too much, honestly.
Even if I changed back to viral, I would still be okay with it. |
Maraudian
99+ day(s) ago | this update will take place |
Africa
99+ day(s) ago | hehe, come join the "dark A" side twu, tho you do know that virals have acces to the Herc. Its still quite good anti emerald;) |
TheWorldUnited
99+ day(s) ago | i have changed my mind i am now against making d class uncapturable.....
my reasoning being with the massive bump about to happen to emerald and most likyl big bumps to other gaurd ships viral will need a fast spamming ship that can take out emerald... other than relying on straz which build at half the speed |
TheWorldUnited
99+ day(s) ago | i duno about turn based .. tho i guess its the same...
we dnt need another non-exploring race... the amount of inactive people to get planets off at the lower prs on rt is already a joke.... so making it so even less races can explore just increases competition in lower ranks...
it puts alot of players off that when they first joining they just get raided by n00b hunters straight away... ure plan would just increase the amount of n00b hunters..
why would u want to give them a angel substitute anyway.... they can already RE lyth tyr herc tiger chlorite phor zues .... all of which are perfectly decent missile ships.... yes more expensive... but was that the whole point of viral... a very strong race that is also quite poor.... there advantage of being able to build the best ships from each race is that they aren`t as able to afford them.....
angel and pyth for virals are a joke because they have a 20-1 upkeep allowing virals if they wish to spam them to high prs for very little $$$.... no other race (bar maru) can do this so why should virals one of the strongest races be allowed to ?
just cos u take 1 cheap decent ship away doesn`t mean u have to replace it ... as i said virals already have the options of RE`in many different decent missile ships..... |
AmericanEmpire
99+ day(s) ago | i agree with certicom there,
personally i like the idea of making the D.class uncapturable
and giving the virals a larger ship of their own, but i think takign away the virals explore abaility isnt even possible. its not very easy to win battles using just neutral and borr while on the offensive.
so maybe the virasl ship could look like...
no def/no retal decent range make it like the angel if that`d help.
high chemical damage and varying defenses...?
it may also entice new player to become viral paids... |
Africa
99+ day(s) ago | I like the idea, its only on rt that you can explore a c4, you cant do it TB servers anyway, so in fact it is only the first 32 (maybe 48 if you push it) planets that depends on the scouts. The rest you have to capture anyway.
In my case (fast, I only explored 1 c3 (viral) ) before I got a c2 from another player and then exploration was over anyway.
certicom, taking away the angel will also decrease people interest in becoming viral, but giving them another deadawesome ship, a balanced one, will leave that interest intact -> paids -> gc keep running,, yea!! :) |
Certicom
99+ day(s) ago | Taking away exploring from virals is a poor idea. It would highly disadvantage new virals compared to old virals that had a chance to explore for their base. I think a lot of people get paids to be viral and that kind of change would drastically decrease the paids and interest in the game possibly to the point that Stephen could no longer justify running it and just closes the GC servers. |
Donster
99+ day(s) ago | The issue is with taking exploring away from virals. Every race, even Guardians, explore when they first start to get a base of good planets to build upon. Take exploring away and virals are now 100% dependent on capturing descent planets for their base, but the reality is that most captured planets are garbage (<300 land mass). This can be overcome with very high research levels on infrastructure, but that can take a really long time on a non-RT server.
Implementing this change is a fundamental restructuring of the race, not a ship tweak or re-balancing.
Better off just taking the D.Angel away and not replacing it - heck we already have enough heavies... |
PistolPete
99+ day(s) ago | I think its an excellent idea Masta is proposing!
It will solve two problems. On is that virals are not considered a hard race and secondly we can remove the D.class from viral and give them a balanced ship instead. Should be something like the angel, just more upkeep and less build cost. Problems will be solved at RT, and the other servers will not be nerfed.
As knossos states, if you do this it will nuke newbies. I think that is true, but this should be the point. Virals must be harder. All it will take is patience and skills, and you can build a good empire. But it will take more time, as for guardians for instance. And since virals are hard, they are not supposed to be easy to play for newbs, as i understand it. I do not think it is true that it leaves the established empires intact. They loose the cheap angel, and get a balanced ship instead, which solves a very important problem.
All in all. This is the best suggestion i`ve seen within the frame of opportunities, that is defined by Stephens absence. |
Donster
99+ day(s) ago | Ahhh, no. Remove exploring and then every new viral will have crab for their core cluster and no decent base income. How often does one capture a planet with a land mass above 400-500? This nukes all the newbie, but leaves the established viral empires intact. |
Gilead
99+ day(s) ago | interesting idea Masta. Although I am afraid that turning viral clusters into 5 planets a piece (ie. 5 planets in ac1) could be beyond Maruadians abilities (because Stephen will not let him, not because Maraudian is not physically able ofcourse! :P) |
MastaKilla
99+ day(s) ago | Here is another idea:
Remove D.Class from virals as suggested. This will stop those spams that apparently are a big problem on RT. Although virals get to choose new ships this will be a serious nerf!
As I understand it, theres no way to make new ships without Stephen, but its possible to play around with the existing ones. So it should be an oppertunity to turn the viral scout into a V.class capital ship, thus giving the virals some compensation for taking away the marauder D.class. This ship could for instance be something like the angel with an upkeep balanced for virals.
This also takes exploring away for virals, thus making virals harder to play, which has also been an issue lately. It might then be reasonable to change viral clustersize to 5 planets (a c.4 is then 125 planets) as it is harder to find good planets when unable to explore, thus making virals able to have enough land on a fair number of clusters. |
theworldunited
99+ day(s) ago | give them there own wont happen because there is a ship list >.<
yes i agree that virals are a poorer race but i still argue that rich list means nothing as u can buy ure way out of it (i suppose thats more of an rt thing tho)
it is a weird situation ... like too strong with .... too weak without :P |
