TheWorldUnited
2008-11-27 |  | Gaurd balence.... |  |
I was just thinking maybe gaurds could do with a slight balence, in which the typical ruby taurm and li spams arnt as but at the same time gaurds have a better ship array to rely on for stacking.....
Atm gaurds do have a few usefull ships but most of them are very specific for example garnet is very efficient against pyth on agressive but it is not very good as a general ship...
now i no alot of u are going to say gaurds are fine its easy to stack with them u just need skill blah blah blah... but when ever u like it or not the most effective gaurd attack is ruby taurm li spam on carefull it wins against an equal 10 stack 97% of the time .... if i`m wrong i want you to show me a stack that beat it on defence..... (by equal i mean all 10 stacks in the fleet are of pretty much the same pr)
i have no idea what to do in terms of direct firgures and ships but my general ideas would be too---
reduce the fire power of ruby
reduce the hull of tarum maybe change its weopons to energy
introduce a ship or convert an existing ship which can win on defence and attack against both herc and angel on argressive eg a range 8 energy ship but make sure the ship has low hull so if attacked on carefull it will loose
increase the weopns on the emerald.... (its still Shocking for a range 9 destroyer with little hull)
tbh just re-shape the whole of g class so that there actualy good for attacking or defending rather than just glorified fodders .......
the whole idea of this is just to try and reduce the effectiveness of the ruby li taurm spam and to make general stacking with gaurds more effective......
now i leave it to u to tear all this apart :)
p.s.. reduce the amount of turns for k class.... no way in hell are those 2 ships worth 25k each maybe like 8-12k |
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DarkGuardian
99+ day(s) ago | give us a battleship or the K battleship whats the point of showing us ships we cant use |
Imagine{A{Cool{Name
99+ day(s) ago | how about giving all guardian ships the no retal trait and +1 range to all G. class, how would that effect you other mods TWU? |
TheWorldUnited
99+ day(s) ago | ya as i sed fix is to give the race a handfull of decent range 7 ships which makes it so that they dnt loose every attack on agressive.....
but like heck the admins would ever implement that :( |
ArchAng3l
99+ day(s) ago | u finally know why tom ruby exist :P g ship is really poor.. and ur idea of keeping the attack pr and pr of guard ship in your idea while also keeping the range the same will not help at all... even with some change of shield mod, g class firepower and range is jus too low such that it will be pawned when long range ship hit on aggressive... therefore if ur idea of g L class and nerf ruby tom is implemented, guard will be cripple.. at least the current situation, guard can still get win on offensive with use of ruby tom... with yours, guard will have difficulties in both offense and defense.. |
TheWorldUnited
99+ day(s) ago | after 3 hours ..... of tweaking and playing around with ships i deem this task of making gaurds balenced enough to properly stack impossible..... the only solution i can find is the introduction of 2 or 3 range 7-9 ships with no retail...... in the current state of gaurd ships just loads of range 7+ ships on agressive 8/10 times wipe a gaurd fleet....... despite the all the changes i`ve made to the existing gaurd ships...... :(:( |
TheWorldUnited
99+ day(s) ago | i`ve tried to leave the attack power and pr of the guard ships as it was as this keeps the general purpose of the what gaurds are ment to be like but these mod changes will certainly enable more stacking style fleets....
plus the nerf to ruby torum will make spamming them much less effiecent..... i`m just running them all through greenyedi ship designer atm too see if i`ve made anything too strong/ too weak |
archaeoptyrex
99+ day(s) ago | Most of those are nice ideas TWU -- I`m especially intrigued by the G Quartz and ionised hull mod.
Currently, only ruby and tourm (of course!) and neutrals provide defense from queens or borrys. Hence, guards who stack with guard ships are actually particularly vulnerable chemical in lower stacks.
Personally, I always thought that guards should be stronger vs chemical than they are. Currently the race who are stronger in this sense are collectives -- which doesn`t make much sense to me. |
TheWorldUnited
99+ day(s) ago | Yoshi....... this really is meant to be a constructive thread to make guard a more balanced race...... what is the point in ure post??? were not trying to get them bumped at all.... were just trying to get ships tweaked to make stacking a more viable option...... |
TheWorldUnited
99+ day(s) ago | my ideas would be too
to change tourm hull down to 10k
put all weopons on energy
reduce weopon to 5k
sheilds too +50/-50/+40/-40
ruby hull down to 18k
weopons down to 8k
reduce all g class energy sheild to 60%
agate change kinetic mod to +40%
Amethyst change emc mod to +40%
L garnet attack to 20k
Quartz ironised hull mod to +40%
Corundum EMC mod to +30%
weopons to 25k (still equal kinetic and energy)
give the no retail ability (or instead of this put to range 8???)
emerald weopons to 30-35k
L topaz missle to 25k 5k kinetic
( these two ships would still be weak but at least they may have a few more uses)
Fluorite
weopons to 25k dont really no what i would do with the shield mods tbh......
In all these changes would bring ruby and tourm down to more on level with g class...(although they still would be siggnifficantly better than g class still) while at the same time opens up more uses and options for gclass .... as they have good sheild mods against other types of attack .....
this are just rough guess and have not been tested at all so i have no idea if they will make the race op or up there just my thoughts and suggestions..... |
Maraudian
99+ day(s) ago | headadmin did have the ability to ship edit , that ability was lost just before we started on D maru balancing , hence the delay on it ( stephen has to change the shiplist himself now ) |
Biohazard
99+ day(s) ago | There are a lot of good idee`s here.
But there is 1 thing you all forget, and that is we need Stehpen to do these changes, of have a Head admin that cares about GC.
We only have Mara who is "tobad for us" not head admin.
So he can only point ut changes but he cannot make them.
Improments have bene suggested all over the course of this game and only a hand full have ever been implemented.
We need to get the support of the Staff behind this on order to make it a success.
And yes Guard need some more differsitie in the ships. |
DrunkenMasters
99+ day(s) ago | -30-40% of ruby/tourm hull, give them no defense, make their shields DIFFERENT, change tourm`s damage to energy after that, ruby to have +50% chemical+50% missile shields and -60% kinetic -40% energy(maybe)? Never been tested but the idea is to have at least one ship to fight herc... |
Imagine{A{Cool{Name
99+ day(s) ago | I am still pretty new but I am playing guardian, I hope my opinions aren`t ignored due to my experience.
Ruby and tourmaline need either a reduction in hull or a reduction in damage, I would suggest a reduction in hull. I would decrease ruby to 20k and Tourmaline to 10k
Change a g class ships to complete energy damage let the rest remain a mix of kinetic/energy and 1 or 2 purely kinetic. Easiest way I see to do this is change amethyst to completely energy damage.
Also L classes need more damage let them have their lower hulls in comparison to other guardian ships, but they definitely need more damage. I would suggest Garnet increased to 20k, Emerald increased to 27k or 28k, and Topaz increased to 24k.
I read something about changing ranges, do not change any ships range unless you are decreasing the range Ruby range to 5. |
Yoshi
99+ day(s) ago | ruby tourm range 16 +75% to all mod. 90k hull reduce pr. add more damage, and maybe 4 type of weapon? why not! |
ArchAng3l
99+ day(s) ago | or we can do it a simpler way..
keep the shield, hull, firepower... change oni weapon type..
have gclass ship with pure chemical, pure energy or those gclass with 2weapon type can have combination of energy chemical, chemical kinetic and energy kinetic..
this way guard don have to rely building slow queen for chemical, c class for energy.. guard can use their own gclass for variety choice of weapon type.. and it will definitely promote stacking since guard don need to use lot of money and turn stacking with neutral..
with this in place, those who prefer to stack and viable option to do it now.. without changing the principal of guard.. defensive with low range high hull low/high firepower.. |
TheWorldUnited
99+ day(s) ago | just to try and structure this topic a lil more.... Gard income is fine .... they where meant to be one of the poorest races.... leave guard income as it is....!!!
i agree most with the idea of keeping the general principle of guard the same (eg .... defenceive/ protective race) by taking current g class and l class and just tweaking around with mods to try and get some variance rather than just several stronger and weakening ships which are in essence the same thing..... |
ArchAng3l
99+ day(s) ago | oso show us the tweak to other ship first before changing guard uber ships.. cos the last update to g and L class is truely disappointing.. don want to have poor g and L class and lost ruby tom along with it.. then guard will be cripple :S |
ArchAng3l
99+ day(s) ago | when there are so many race to choose from, different race attract different grp of ppl.. if ppl like stacking alot, they can go for terran viral.. if they want good cash above anything else, they go become miner.. if they love fighting aggressively, maru is the race to be.. if they love fight at low pr, collective is a good choice.. if not for the god-like ships of ruby tom, i`ll not choose to become guard :P
though i don really like the idea of changing ruby tom li, i agree guard is hard to stack now.. especially when fighting at high pr, u always find urself lacking choice of ships to build to counter other ships since guard can oni choose kinetic or mix with energy...
but changing guard ship extensively which change the original `feel` of guard.. so i suggest doing as few changes as possible...
the purpose of editing the ship is to promote stacking..
nerf oni either tom or ruby (guard still needs at least one god ships to survive at high pr when most ppl spam)
if tom is to be the one to be changed, change the weapon to energy.. make it long range, high hull which less firepower...
also change one of the g ship to pure energy too.. quartz or agate can be energy... make it decent range (7) high hull less firepower..
let guard have a high range, low hull and high firepower ship... maybe change amethyst...
then let guard have a ship with 3 weapon.. mid to low range, high hull, low firepower... fluorite can be change to this..
then give L ship more weapon choice, like some kinetic to kill fodder or some chemical to it...
l think li and xe is fine at it is.
this way, wtih lot of high hull ship with lot of ship with range 7 to low.. guard is still defensive in nature. two long range high firepower give a different taste to guard that guard to a little extent can be aggressive. mixing together give guard a wider variety for stacking and less predictable... |
keltikelti
99+ day(s) ago | i`m guessing most if not all of you are forgetting the point of having guardians...
they are supposed to be close to if not the most powerful race so that ther is a reason for ppl to buy paids and become these races! |
collective1
99+ day(s) ago | I agree with Deiloche on the most part, regarding guardian ships.
Tourm/Ruby could be high power, low hull, and unique shields (this could be accomplished by reducing their hull by, say 50% or so, and perhaps making their shields a bit more extreme).
Rebalancing G class shields to something like +75/0/-20/+10 would make them more interesting.
I would like to see L class have more firepower to contrast with the G class...their range isn`t that bad currently, maybe at 50-100% more weapon to each of them...
If these changes go through, I think the other guardian demands need to be re-thought in this context... |
