Tauren
2007-02-10 |  | Talk about Unbalanced |  |
Name H.Man-O-War
Class Starbase
Weapon 100
Energy Damage 0
Kinetic Damage 50
Missile Damage 50
Chemical Damage 0
Hull 1,200
Range 3
Scanner rating 0
Power rating 402
Cost per unit 4,040
Upkeep 176
1 turn produces 60
Mineral Required Mineral Required
Terran Metal 0
Red Crystal 1
White Crystal 1
Rutile 2
Composite 2
Strafez Organism 0
Ship Specials Capture Ship Ability
This ship has a 100 % chance of capturing ships in battle
Ship Attributes Defense Modifier
Energy Shield + 60 %
Absorption Shield + 99 %
ECM + 99 %
Ionized Hull + 80 %
look at this shields modification it`s bloody as bad as kalzul ships stephen it`s not UC!!!
H.Man-O-War already being rebalanced
Edited by Maraudian on 2007-02-10 |
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freakn
99+ day(s) ago | Why does every ship have to have a "easy way" to be killed? It is a race that can loose all planets yet can`t explore. Typically a collective will have It is a different way of thinking. I guess no one is open to new ideas (I rmeember people whining when guardian first came out, then viral first came out)... everyone should go back to being a terran and miner. Why not eliminate shield modifiers all together and go to UC?
I still do not see hoe R Snow is over powered. Many other shipd by many other races have much better stats and ratios.
Given a rating of where to judge the richness or ease to make money ... collective is not on the top. It is near the bottom of the list. I can find marus with several hundred billion, I can find bankrupt A Miners .... does this mean all marus are rich and all miners are poor? Finding exceptions (especially old empires) does not make it a standard. Also, with the likely hood of more people playing collective, food prices will be dropping.
Take a look at the top 50. Take a look at successful UWs (1 collective, over 10 virals). To judge truly balanced, the top 50 should be equal numbers of each race. To be balanced the races doing UWs should be mixed. When viral is almost half the top 50 on RT, when a viral is top race on every server ... with HUGE differences in PR on the RT server (not counting KalZul), Normal, and Slow .... there is NO pity for viral being "poor". It is a hard race that plays as the easiest for anyone with experience. |
Archaeoptyrex
99+ day(s) ago | DarckKnight ... one of the real pros of the game, and one of the oldest collectives about HAS been commenting (constructively!) about collectives, esp. the Man O War.
I`m not saying the collective changes are bad overall ... In fact I really like the addition of new ships, and build rate improvement. I am saying individual ships haven`t been worked out properly and that responses such as mine have met with responses such as yours -- assuming we know nothing and are just reactionaries. A lot of the vets commenting about collectives have been waiting/asking for updates for ages and are overall pleased that there has been one. |
Archaeoptyrex
99+ day(s) ago | alright freakn ... I will go through your errors ... *sighs* (this is wrt what you said ... MOW has now been toned down a bit ... but you said it)
1) You picked R Snow to say Collectives not overpowered. *cough* R Sloop, R Pinnace (Now also R Brigantine ... 3:2 attack:pr and 2/3rds of that huge attack in chemical!) *cough* MOW
2) Cost Argument: "Collectives are a poor race" Totally false. Collectives currently have great agriculture income. My collective fed-mates GC/ULTRA (not even rt!) have over 100 bil in ready cash plus much much minerals (compared to my poor viral empire of cash just over 1bil and <250k each mineral).
3) ah the great comparison to the Hunli.
-- upkeep. See cost. Guard income is about 1/5-1/10th compared to a non-guard race.
An agri collective makes much much much more than a guardian does. So in fact, taking that into account, the hunli has at least equivalent, IMO a higher upkeep.
--ship cost. Again guards are truely poor. 663k is much more to a guard than 528k to a collective
--Modifiers ... By your argument this counts as just "one" win. But it`s a huge one. Stephen maths means (and you know it freakn) there`s an inverse function going on.
You can`t talk about mods like that. Hull and mods mean the same thing.
This is the important (real) calc -- hull:pr for a particular attack type
(These are old stats but YOU were arguing with these stats, saying MOW was NOT overpowered)
energy: hunli 100:1 MOW 7.5:1
kinetic: hunli 100:1 MOW 100:1
missile: hunli 1.33:1 MOW 100:1
chemical li 2:1 MOW: 15:1
And there you have it. Everyone knows li will die to missile and perhaps chemical. With a minimum 7.5 (and remember there are no high attack:pr energy ships), and an incredible 15:1 chemical resis your argument flounders to real behindysis.
Alright a slight 2nd thread to prove my point further ... |
freakn
99+ day(s) ago | I`ve yet to hear a collective complain about the ship. Only people who are scared of change. |
freakn
99+ day(s) ago | Lets compare the OLD stats of Man O War to the K Hun Li
HunLi can attack, MOW can`t
HunLi has upkeep of ~ 5K, at same PR MOW is ~ 22K
HunLi cost 663K, at same PR MOW cost 528K
HunLi has two 99% modifiers, MOW has two 99% modifiers
HunLi was total modifiers of 273%, MOW is 338%
HunLi has a weapon of 14000, MOW at same PR has 12700 weapon
HunLi has hull of 50K, MOW is 150K
HunLi has range of 6, MOW is 3.
So, MOW wins twice. It is an expensive ship meant to barley gather ohter peoples ships only in defensive mode. But now it has been whined down to something because people haven`t really given thought to it. Thnik outside the box, why does a defensive ship have to die?. There was a time before people could capture ships ... it was a new idea. There was once a time when you only made money from commercial or industrial ... then other races were added. Only that should change on it might be an anti-retal or higher upkeep. Shields should be brought back to normal and energy weapon eliminated. |
freakn
99+ day(s) ago | Man O War might be hard to kill, but it also doesn`t pack a huge punch. And it is a starbase ... defense only. It isn`t a miner base, a terran base, or a guardian base .... it is a DIFFERENT starbase people. And has anyone even thought about the cost of this? It is the highest upkeep to PR ship in the collective fleet. With a ratio of 2.2, most other ships are 3.5 to 5 (not counting the frigate and corvette). It is also expensive to build, with an about 10 ratio of cost to PR. Collective is a poor race ... might as well give them a defensive ship so then can "collect" other ships from time to time. |
freakn
99+ day(s) ago | "Zenith Collectives way overpowered. Crazy ships. And some of them are just weird. R. Snow, 500 dmg, 3500 hull, and only 3066 PR?? What the hell?"
Have you looked at the ship manual recently ... ever?? Take a look at the Maru ship "Shark". Same attack, more hull. Less PR. |
freakn
99+ day(s) ago | how about let it sit for a month or two, people actually play it, then decide if it is good or bad. |
GCLOanShArK
99+ day(s) ago | yea, I agree collective to be strong..
Can we have some revised on Terran`s upkeep?
Terran suppose to earn money.. thats human nature : ) |
BadSicilian
99+ day(s) ago | i`m thinking the r snow should have been made a to hold its own against tourm, but die to ruby :\ collective really doesn`t hold much chance against guard, make sloop a ruby killer, and snow a tourm killer. gives stacking a whole new meaning for collective. |
DreamlandReformed
99+ day(s) ago | yea it is a bit unbalanced, bring energy + ionized to 0 |
Maraudian
99+ day(s) ago | Collective are meant to be strong , but gaurdian are meant to be able to beat marauder and collective to a pulp , and marauder are the strongest , so yes collective will be challenged vs these two race , but they will be able to beat both in offence and defence regardles of the stack/spam. |
Razgriz
99+ day(s) ago | ok they ar4e overpowered compared 2 b4, but i think its a nice change, now they may hold thyere own |
DarckKnight
99+ day(s) ago | Man O war still needs more firepower and one of the mods droped badly maybe chemichal due to having lots of ships weak to energy, bark offensive capability still sucks how we gonna kill guards with that |
DarckKnight
99+ day(s) ago | pfft can't be bothered to, just gonna say it here if brigantine gonna stay with that range way it needs no retal, we still need something to kill pikes has a collective and has a aminer on agressive same for marus |
Maraudian
99+ day(s) ago | stop whining about it and contact me with something worth reading and doing then ? |
DarckKnight
99+ day(s) ago | and collectives won't aren't gonna be overpowered at least after the only thing over powered was man o war and thats gonna get nerfed |
DarckKnight
99+ day(s) ago | do take in mind i'm a 900 days old collective when i say those ships will serv nothing more than to replace some neutral ships dunno if that even good enough we need a strong 10 range missile ship and a freaging dreadnaught |
DarckKnight
99+ day(s) ago | well its still tough to go up with collective has far i can see, brigantine sucks, man o war only defense, barks still suck, R.snow roflol whats up with that a bad copy of schooner? |
Maraudian
99+ day(s) ago | * points out kalzul is the weakest race in the game * |
