emmdeeUT
2015-01-24 |  | Brotherhood UW on Ultra |  |
Brotherhood`s fleet
H.Galleon Destroyer 31,668 7 31,661
R.Snow Battleship 5,423 10 5,413
Small Strafez Fodder 569,700 241 569,459
Large Strafez Fodder 152,357 5 152,352
H.Barkentine Cruiser 3,748 0 3,748
Strafez King 10,285 26 10,259
H.Man-O-war Starbase 8,000 4 7,996
R.Schooner Destroyer 1,046 0 1,046
H.Brigantine Frigate 5,533 0 5,533
R.Sloop Frigate 2,200 0 2,200 |
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Omegian
99+ day(s) ago | Congrats brotherhood.
50 Mil UW`s can be killed in 4 hours easily on a TB server from one empire having 10-15 BTC`s, maybe less if its all fodder or something that just lines up perfectly.
For the 3 UW`s I have done, I might have used 10 BTCs in total for all 3, I don`t dig, never did dig, and frankly digging for me was at 3-5 am. I got those BTC`s from handouts from the awards of Ste (Regalos or BTCs) or the 2 from the UW.
For the UW`er, BTCs are meant to counter the historias you receive when your fleet has lost the bottoms stacks or will soon lose those bottom stacks as most good strategy is to eliminate bottom stacks for the flanking bonus. That being said, a larger fleet is harder to kill, but over time it is manageable which is why most UW empires have to build large pr fleets on TB. Its more, build big to pressure the other empires not in submission, but to waste their own artifacts on a futile attempt. If you had access to say all the diggers accounts, I would bet that if the UW was 100 mil PR on fast, it would die versus a 400 mil UW. Not because of the number of fighters, but the chance of UW destruction success.
I wish I could actually do stacked UW`s with 10 equal PR fleets and rebuild overtime, but that is almost economically impossible from the buildup to the income generation needed to not even go bankrupt while building (taking into affect selling food/minerals). Hence why I would recommend being fodder heavy 20% or more of the total fleet.
But meh, if you do have the ability or process to limit UW PR limits/UW completion time/artifact use or limits can`t be the same across the TB servers.
All of this is still if you can do this EE, but I am not sure how easy the coding is to do all of that has been mentioned, but felt like adding my 2 pennies on this. |
Brotherhood
99+ day(s) ago | Well, I guess it`s time I at least post and say thanks, first to Distemper for the support. Second, to deathroe and admiral, and emdee for fighting it. It was my first ever attempt on any server. I always wanted to do one, especially as collective, so when I seen a chance to not only do.one as collective, but to do it with such a young empire,I tried it. But in hindsight, I am sorry for doing it. Seeing as it was looked down upon, and the potential of being the reason some folks stop playing. I love this game, and cant stand the thought that ive helped inactivity. So I am sorry guys. I feel like I dont deserve it now. |
Charmander
99+ day(s) ago | 50mil UW would not survive on any server, unless its protected intensively. Thats for sure...
Historically domination on TB servers has come by being coordinated more efficiently. In the old days when the opposition was better every fleet was posted on an external forum, each empire we were against had its own thread etc. Some empires had the role of digging and some to sit at high PR and some to fight in the mid range PR...
And you are completely right when you mention the lack of communication and coordination. This game would be a lot harder to dominate if everyone talked together about what they do and tried to reach a common goal. In the end the lack of communication is probably the main reason why its not that hard to UW. |
EphemeralEternity
99+ day(s) ago | or making it so a UW last 96 hours on TB servers maybe a week on slower servers
thats why i said the limitations would only be placed on those in the fed of the UW bearer or those who have been in the fed of the UW bearer within 30 days prior to the UW attempt, it wouldn`t affect those outside, Meaning those supporting couldn`t use as many btcs or historias while those opposing could. thats that little idea.
and yeah a max pr cap would help some, but on most of these servers a UW set off at 50 mil pr would have just as much a chance of going off as one a 900 mil pr, because there`s alot of people that honest just don`t care to fight it, usually those who are most likely to put up a fight get a healthy dose of historias prior to the UW, they are beaten out of the ranks, and generally a UW has at least one person willing to drop and hit other trouble makers or one the look out for when they log in so they can be historia`d if the try to build,
aside from that the market is usually dead so only established active empires with connections can get the minerals to fight a UW or have the cash on hand and most don`t have the artifacts to pose a serious threat, and because those outside the ruling feds don`t actively communicate you generally don`t see those that actually have artifacts to bolster the empires that can deal the most damage provide those empires even have the resources on hand to make an attempt. TB is a complex ballet.
but that aside lowering the pr cap wouldn`t hurt either
Edited by EphemeralEternity on 2015-01-29 |
PistolPete
99+ day(s) ago | Nah i dont agree...
Arties is not what makes a UW survive at a TB server but what can kill it. If arties is taken away it will mean that any empire can UW if the UW fleet is so big that the amount of turns generated cannot kill the fleet.
The reason why so big UW fleets are build today is to prevent people from believing the UW can be killed.
If you want to make it more exciting i suggest that the max PR is lowered to 300mil - or lower. |
emmdeeUT
99+ day(s) ago | To fight a UW run by a competent player in the dominant fed on TB is impossible without BTCs. Since I must work for a living, digging at 2:30 AM is a rare time for me. I like EE`s suggestion of rotating the rare dig time as I think that would make the TB more competitive. |
Sibiriangun
99+ day(s) ago | I agree with EE to some extent, except that putting a cap on the use of BTCs during a UW has the opposite effect. I have always had tons of arties, but for none of my UWs they have been a useabl factor. I mostly used them just to get them away before I activated. BTCs are for taking UWs down, NOT for building the fleet.
Only my Terran UW on fast had the advantage of the build rate event, but I think it could have been pulled off at a lesser PR too.
I somehow agree with the point about UW ships, but if there is no incentive to UW, why would ppl do it? That would just mean more old OPed empires around. |
Renegade
Game-Admin
99+ day(s) ago | Not at all ;) ! I like your idea. Just putting out one of the big reasons it likely wont fly. |
Feanor
99+ day(s) ago | @ Renegade - does this mean that you don`t want to be my friend?!
;) |
Error404
99+ day(s) ago | I actually love the idea of neutral ship costs being set based on race. Makes sense to me. |
Renegade
99+ day(s) ago | @ Feanor - This would be nice, but the whole point of MMO`s is that you can play with friends, and most people are not willing to sacrifice that. The only reason a lot of us are still here is the friendships we have. |
Feanor
99+ day(s) ago | EE these are all great points.
I think it would be a blast to choose two or three team/fed captains, and then have them each choose their teams one player at a time, schoolyard style.
THEN let`s see one fed get a UW off in a time limit of, say, six months. |
EphemeralEternity
99+ day(s) ago | congrats to Brotherhood, didn`t mean to derail with my post, always nice to see a collective UW |
EphemeralEternity
99+ day(s) ago | 25/01/15 Brotherhood Ultra Collective 46 191,553,617
15/01/15 Achilleus Ultra A.Miner 161 620,569,681
22/12/14 Fuzzypenguin Ultra A.Miner 138 481,807,534
21/12/14 SilentNight RT Terran 11 3,863,394
06/11/14 MastaKilla Fast Terran 2499 1,189,585,303
05/11/14 wingMut Ultra A.Miner 246 776,768,694
24/09/14 PistolPete Fast Viral 2450 952,164,135
06/08/14 Achilleus Ultra Marauder 282 303,835,287
08/07/14 EMPIRE Normal A.Miner 834 144,565,030
18/05/14 Akubo Slow A.Miner 1276 347,216,492
12/05/14 Africa Fast A.Miner 799 895,607,331
sadly it seems that TB servers have become the most easy place to set off a UW, due to the gap between the haves and have nots, those in feds that have control over the server, which generally hold the most active, and older empires, meaning more artifacts per person on average, so that building a UW and keeping it alive is so much easier for people in those feds. it`s also those very empires that or more readily able to support each other posting food at reasonable prices for fed mates or minerals or what have you while they starve the rest of the server. so there again eventually it becomes a group who is on top
One way to possibly alleviate this situation would be to make UW`s force restart everyone, or perhaps remove all current artifacts on the server which should have been done to begin with if i`m to be honest.
another possible method is to change maximum fed members on tb server to 5...maybe 8, forcing people to be in different feds, allowing for more incidents that cause allies to start fighting each other and if nothing else foiling some intercommunication between allies.
but none of this is anything i could do, even if i had the support to go forward,
It`s natural for most people to want to join a server and jump on the side of power, though there`s a few who actively join just to oppose those ruling parties, but fed decide to stay because there`s not alot a single new empire or two can do against established empires and they are easily starved out. But persistent ones can get places eventually if they`re willing to wait it out
The UW rewards are something I also loath, I think the game should get harder, more of a challenge for people able to set off a UW because they supposedly fought against the whole server and won so things should become more difficult. But they get a health leg up on everyone, and many choose to go miner which is perhaps the most ridiculously easy way to win, despite the price of food, despite mineral or cg sells because fodder cost the same for everyone and it`s much easier for them to amass fodder building up a fleet capable of surviving for long enough to pull off a UW.
I just want to abuse my power each time I see a UW attempt more than 20% of it`s total pr being strafez, but gladly I haven`t snapped yet
though that`s something I will remedy one day, fodder will eventually cost differently depending on the race making it that much more difficult.
And while artifacts are a big part of the gap, it could be lessened my making dig times occur in 6 hour rotation and changing the max storage capcity of certain artifact or making it so there`s a limit on how many of an artifact someone can use in a 24 hour period so that a person can`t use 50 historias in mere minutes or 200 btcs over the course of two days, and perhaps during a UW these limits should limited to empires associated to the fed UWing meaning if you`ve been in that fed for even a minute in the past 30 days you will suffer from these limitations and the fed would be locked so that people can not join or leave once the UW begins
But for now it`s all just a dream no matter whether you think these are good Ideas or horrible ones, or even if you think you have better ones yourself, but who knows what the future may hold.
Edited by EphemeralEternity on 2015-01-28 |
Renegade
Game-Admin
99+ day(s) ago | Also I don`t know what you`re on about with the UW not occuring as much on TB. You didn`t read my post neh? They occur far more often in fact on TB, since there is actually opposition on RT, whereas on TB it`s essentially a free ship and restart for anyone with some time in most of the leading feds.
The few exceptions (like your example of your UW on fast) is just due to pure laziness on the part of the UW holder. I believe you even yourself mentioned how silly and bad your fleet for it was. |
Renegade
Game-Admin
99+ day(s) ago | @ MinQ - With no minerals / food / ore on the market it`s pretty hard to get enough cash to build a fleet and get borders. I`m glad you find it so funny though, you`re just too good for me, I guess.
And you`re still ignoring the artifact thing. Taking down a UW on turn based, even ultra, 100 turns at a time is nigh impossible with the 48 hour time limit. Especially with the low numbers of players.
My apologies I don`t live in the UK or Europe or Asia, I`ll move ASAP so TB can be more competitive. |
MinQ
99+ day(s) ago | Renegade: I guess the partial reason why UW doesnt occur in TB as much as RT is kinda obvious, as turn doesnt generate as fast.. And it`s a trade off of turns in terms of using your turns to dig, research or explore.. It therefore is much harder in TB servers to build up a UW-able empire.
And new empires can always join and build up slowly, it doesnt take too long to build a decent empire in UT honestly.. Logging on every 3 hours or so just to use your turns aint that hard. It`s just a matter of whether people want to try or not..
And by you saying you are being "forced" into VM due to lack of money is funny, going into VM and not using turns makes you even more broke.. And TBH Brotherhood`s recent UW wasnt insanely high and neither was it a fodder heavy fleet..
and i do remember Arrland taking down Niceguy`s UW on fast fairly quickly.. So honestly, its just down to a matter of whether you want to or not.. Organising a hit together on TB is so much easier unlike RT where everyone is on most of the time to use turns or keep a look out in the ranks.. |
Renegade
99+ day(s) ago | UW`ing hasn`t been something to go for on any server but RT in probably four years - a few exceptions abound.
It just gives the few people who build empires something to do I guess. My only issue with it is the issues it causes with newer empires on those servers. Heck, I have max infra on UT and can`t even get going with the UW`s each week. I`ve been forced into VM due to lack of money. |
PistolPete
99+ day(s) ago | Blazed: So what do you suggest the active players at ultra should set up as goals, if UW`ing isnt something to go for. |
Blazed
99+ day(s) ago | Well done?? what was well done? its a dead server on a dead game. Pulling off a free UW isn`t anything special. |
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