Requiem
2011-09-12 |  | New Guardian Nerf Idea |  |
Since guardians seem a little too leet, here`s my siggestion for nerfing them:
-15% weapons on all attacks on non-UW empires and counters.
i.e: Guardians get a -15% penalty to weapons when attacking any non-UW empire and if it isn`t a counter-attack.
This kinda ties in with the theme too, that Guardians are supposed to be well, exactly what their name implies: Guardians. They `guard` the galaxy from foolish people who want to launch a UW.
Thoughts? |
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warmonger11
99+ day(s) ago | youre welcome, mortal |
ShatterdDreams
99+ day(s) ago | Glad to see you still have that "I`m a god Complex" and "I must know secrets that no one else Knows" complex war. thank you for your infinite wisdom once again. |
warmonger11
99+ day(s) ago | almost there apollo :) whats the next step? ill set up the tee-ball for everyone
guards have low ranges meaning there is a range element to exploit
guards can attack on careful and frequently win due to their high hull/PR ratios
therefore...
ATTACK THEM FIRST!!!
why doesnt anyone ever come to this conclusion? when i was guard i honestly told the enemies point blank at times, "stop letting me attack you, hit me first and you will win". now im terran and i still have no problems beating guards
odds are guardians existed before you did in this game, the issue isnt the guards, its your tactics, change it up
also, point taken about gordos on homeworlds, they could still gordo a large or a fertile and any exploring race would benefit equally |
Apollo
99+ day(s) ago | IIRC your homeworld can no longer be gordoed
i dont mind gaurd ships the way they are, lets just make it so guards cant attack on careful.
all those fancy high ranged ships you talk about are near useless defending on careful |
warmonger11
99+ day(s) ago | artifacts are a strawman, anyone can use tons of gordos, a gordod homeworld is more overpowered than anything a guard could do with them
the first half of your argument, you defeated twice over on your own, but heres some more to consider;
if a guard counters you, you earned it
if a guard beats you consistently, hes better than you, improve yourself
if a guard beats you and your friends all at once, hes really good, stay away from him until you all improve
seriously, if you have a posse and they are all alone (SPAMMING even), there is NO reason why you couldnt out do them
and now, heres some stuff ive been hesitant to say because having to say it means you havent figured it out on your own;
guards have low ranges, exploit that, this fact makes defeating them from underneath easy since most of your stacks should get first shots at them (unless they are packing lots of neutral ships, in which case your beef isnt with guards)
guards have low damage/PR ratios (comparing hull and damage to build rates doesnt make much sense since the battle system hinges around the fleets` power ratings, not their build rates), means they dont do much damage, combine this with the first shot idea and you are starting to get a sense for their weakness
yes, guards have a weakness, its up to you to figure it out, or wait till they go offline, or just avoid them |
ShatterdDreams
99+ day(s) ago | warmonger, it`s not a matter of them being able to counter you instantly from above. its the fact that one determined guard can sit in the ranks spam you and any amount of people repetitively. most existing guards can do this sitting at around 50 mil pr and still pull in money while doing it
of course they can be hit from half 1/3rd or even 1/10th pr and yes you can win vs a guard with that big disadvantage but you won`t do much damage because guardians hull and weapon to br is fairly large compared to that of other races. ( which i do believe is the major problem on TB where this matters the most)
yes other races have one or two ships that are similar, like the lictor or w/e but guardians have an entire ship list full of these such ships.
another reason guards can and have become over powered (on rt more so) is the proliferation of gordos when you a guard pulling in as much money as terran or viral its a little bit scary. i`ve known guard empires that could build balanced stacks well above 100 mil pr and still pull in a nice positive income.
those are the issues with guardian as i see them. though i honestly don`t care if anything is ever done, i don`t go out of my way on this game any more for anything, i just play in my own bubble. |
warmonger11
99+ day(s) ago | gah, i hate brain farts, "would you prefer till YOU go offline and they crawl over you and counter?" |
warmonger11
99+ day(s) ago | i agree with ish
guards can build fast, that just means they have an advantage attacking many people in rapid fire. are you mad they race over you and counter you? would you prefer to wait till they go offline and crawl over you and counter? a counter is a counter, they still are limited by the 30%/50% rules just like the rest of us
adapt or die, simple as that |
Ishamael
99+ day(s) ago | I`m with Accord. Played Marauder, Viral, Miner, Terran, Collective, and Guardian in that respective order (play time- not including slow haha).
I can understand SOME arguments from SOME of the people that feel it`s necessary to post their opinions, but for the most part, I`d say roughly ~3/4 people who give their opinions on `build rates, nerfing, and not fair, wahhh wahh` should instead reassess their play style. Maybe just delete the suck cookies on your browsers instead ;) |
AccordEX
99+ day(s) ago | meh just getting tired of hearing everyone cry about "changes" |
Apollo
99+ day(s) ago | /me asterisks himself all night |
ShatterdDreams
99+ day(s) ago | i sense hostility Accord, do you need someone to * you? |
AccordEX
99+ day(s) ago | All you guard nerf talkers can go * yourselves. |
ShatterdDreams
99+ day(s) ago | editing build rates are easy even if the ship builds at one per turn. all you have to do is lower all the ships stats by a percentage including the pr which in effect will lower its br.
i already purposed a thread in which i already augmented the stats of most guard ships in order to reduce the brs (all stats were reduced equally along with pr so the ships performed the exact same, and the cost/upkeeps would indeed be reduced accordingly as well) my numbers were a bit extreme but they could have been change. plus everything always needs real world testing.
no one liked the idea so i killed the thread Here it is
most people also feel why drop the brs of one race when you can increase the brs of every other race. i wouldn`t have a problem with that. it would be nice and make the game a bit faster. there was even an idea in the works before BW was forced to quit to stabilize brs of all ships by putting them all in one of two groups and making their brs as similar as possible. example:
all non capital ships build closely to 30k a turn and all capitals at 65k a turn (not factual numbers)
of course collective would get a bit of special treatment on their brs and guards would probably get no br change
Edited by ShatterdDreams on 2011-09-13 |
Apollo
99+ day(s) ago | how bout making a colonies loyalty go to 0 when its captured instead of being halved, remove loyalty from all the guardians current planets but reset their missions :P
off topic nerf is off topic |
Ninetales
99+ day(s) ago | I think the reason why the built rate nerf is taking such a long time is because its not easy to modifier the guardian built rate of their capital ships since their built rate is 1 ...
***So why not everyone petition to get Quartz built rate to 1 first ***
It seems like the easier and probable a quick way to satisfy demands |
Sibiriangun
99+ day(s) ago | I agree with Apollo that buildrate is the most important issue. Tourm is the most OP ship in the game looking at stats, but that doesnt seem to be a problem compared to fluo/quartz as it builds at 1/3 the speed.
The big problem with nerfing guard buildrate is the they will become seriously underpowered on TB servers, as it will be very hard for an unexplorable empire with high base PR to get borders unless you control the ranks. And getting a decent income as explorable isnt working on TB as you cant gordo. So imo the big problem is to balance guards overall to such different gameplay on RT and TB. The best solution would be to remove gordos and gordoed planets. They are the ones imbalancing guards. |
Apollo
99+ day(s) ago | too much programming to make the work
just increase everyone elses build rate by 2x and guardians by 1.5x |
