HoneyBucket{HH}
2010-08-22 |  | Nerf Miner Starbases |  |
Figured this has been mentioned enough to deserve it`s own thread and maybe we can get the the bottom of the problem once and for all.
Lately, every turn based uw and even some RT uw`s have been successful for pretty much one single reason, the miner starbases.
Firstly because they are very low in upkeep, even poorer races, that have kept a miner base from doing a UW can afford to build a huge spam of the base, as a relatively young empire on turn based servers.
Secondly, because they are considered, by most, "the ultimate uw ship." Not only because of the low upkeep but also because they hold up very well when in a large spam, better than any other ship for the most part; plus they build relatively quickly.
The fact that the miner bases have been used in so many uw`s, chosen over every other ship, is a huge sign that they are overpowered for the job. People should have to contemplate which ship\fleet to build for a uw... it should not just be a given that this particular ship is the only way to go.
As a result of this "ultimate uw ship," certain empires have chosen to uw as miner, they take the base with them and then can uw very easily as any race, doing this over and over again.
These bases have created a huge imbalance in the game, which is only getting worse over time. Something needs to be done to save the turn based servers and it needs to be done now.
I am not trying to complain here, just hoping to get an easy fix implemented in order to better the game play for everyone involved. Please no flaming, just suggestions and either, "I Agree," or "I Disagree," and "this is why," will do. Thank you. |
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Ragnarok
99+ day(s) ago | I agree that both ships make a great choice for UWing, and the main reason for that is because of range and hull advantages. If you want to nerf these ships as uw ships, then I would suggest remaking the ships so that they have more firepower and less hull. This would make it more useful in fighting while making it easier to kill during yes. If you`re gonna have a range 10 ship, don`t give it awesome shields and hull too. |
notorion
99+ day(s) ago | for whats in my mind.. -- ``I Agree``
maybe just make a bear with it change then don`t touch it anymore. Like why not make it that 3 turns to build 1 kryo (Kryo).
Other than uber balancing.. Kryo can also give a WOW-a-big-ship to newbs (phycologicly speaking) then it`ll be really a Kryo with 75k pr.
You know, other than problem solving.. It`ll also give some colours to A.miner.
Like : miner has this big SB called Kryo thats equivalent to a USS carier ship. 200 years to build just 1.
You know.. New blood new pers. |
Sadistic{}Interns
99+ day(s) ago | Oh yeah, sorry - "I Agree"
Sweet cheeks... *winks at HB* |
Sadistic{}Interns
99+ day(s) ago | @ Aacra - " Also not stated is that you can`t spam pyth through the enemy ranks, you will get smashed, whereas with hoko or lakko you build right thru the enemy ranks while making cash most of the way if not the whole way."
Out of all the junk below, this is a brilliant point. As a Maru, let me be the most neutral poster here - WE DON`T HAVE SB and can`t explore...
The facts are simple, Miners make the most $$$, have 3 very cheap and 1 over-powered SB`s and are the CURRENT race that needs changes... It sucks chasing a Miner who builds bases in DP faster than you can spam a cap ship trying to keep up - and avoiding the rest of the server hitting your obvious spam.
IMHO , blah blah - when`s supper? |
UberPansy
99+ day(s) ago | *gets back in his old skool time machine, sets course for 3(?) years ago |
UberPansy
99+ day(s) ago | ned seems only interested in scenarios that affect his own skin, so for his changes to go through we simply give him the reigns of GC and embrace the utopia. o.O
The fact that we even have this starbase argument is certainly indicative of a large problem, imo it should have been immediately evident that a ship that outranges everything is a potential game breaker. The existing template for such a ship would be the Terran P. class ships, which are limited by these key factors:
-bare minium buildrate
-extreme cost
-only 1 damage type
-poor hull/shielding |
Aacra
99+ day(s) ago | lol, I know and I`ve learned to live with it. |
nedflanders
99+ day(s) ago | yeah this type of scenerio you are describing never happens on TB, soooo I guess it sucks to be terran on RT? sorry. |
Aacra
99+ day(s) ago | Those cap ships are good and dandy as long as a Miner doesn`t decide to make cash building 400mill bases, then build a fleet and 2x. But you are right in part, given reasonable pr, terrans and miners are closely set, but pr usually fails to remain reasonable |
nedflanders
99+ day(s) ago | terrans don`t suck versus miners. They just arent good at building to high PR. Be happy with what you got, 15 cols..amazing dig rates and 3 very versatile cap ships. (tyr/nirv/herc)
Miners get destroyed by kinetic ships such as the galleon, but you dont see me complaining about it - it`s part of the game. Races are supposed to have weaknesses. |
Aacra
99+ day(s) ago | So what you are saying Ned, is that I just need to be happy with sucking vs Miners?? I would like to think that terran`s should be able to stand toe to toe with other races rather than being content with letting others do their bidding. |
sumarian
99+ day(s) ago | didnt even need pyth to do it lol. stack always works. :) |
nedflanders
99+ day(s) ago | I agree summarian:
22/08/10
07:21 PM sumarian
76,685,409 nedflanders
59,051,896 Lost
see, there`s 1 viral that doesnt let a basing miner get in his way (I was pure hokos) |
sumarian
99+ day(s) ago | if all the miner vm builders would stop abusing that, i doubt anyone would complain about the starbases with thier current stats. imo, vm building should be the number one problem to fix in gc. I dont mind miner starbases i think it was a good idea to give them good bases being they are more of a defense race. But building to max pr, in vm the whole time should be against the rules. /shrugs |
nedflanders
99+ day(s) ago | Oh yeah, the ranks are just full of SBers right now isnt it? Of course there is Kraven sitting there with his SB spam in VM. I bet the moment he comes outta VM he is screwed though because backoff can build high....
Rank Empire Race Planets Power Rating
1 backoff Viral 56 391,180,656
2 BadWolf Viral 713 222,133,375
3 Kraven A.Miner 667 221,709,891
4 Blade{}Liger Terran 48 200,029,052
5 Sadistic{}Interns Marauder 306 200,000,000
Yes. terrans are not that good keeping up with miner bases in terms of outcome. but that does NOT mean they are imbalanced because other races can handle miner bases! Any decent viral that decided to RE pyth can destroy starbases. /facepalm |
Aacra
99+ day(s) ago | Any idea how much it cost me in Nirvana to take out 400mil miner bases?? You really dont wanna know..... Terran bases suck so bad I can`t really think of many ships that can`t beat them from below. I see no reason that miners should get a base that fires 3 kinds of weapons, always shoots first, and has really low upkeep. This ship could be fixed by taking its range down to 7 or 8, prefferably 7, lol. Or for terran, just give me a low upkeep base killer, cause Nirvana is just unreasonably expensive for chasing bases 100mil+ pr. As for this this about pyth being compared to lakko`s... what makes then much different is that lakko always shoots first, pyth can be taken out from nearly 3x below with tyr. Also not stated is that you can`t spam pyth through the enemy ranks, you will get smashed, whereas with hoko or lakko you build right thru the enemy ranks while making cash most of the way if not the whole way. I need max cash to build 450 mil Nirv, which is the only real terran base killer. You can`t really put up a defense for not nerfing miner bases in some fashion, is just silly to try and rationalize that they are on par. |
BadWolf
Game-Admin
99+ day(s) ago | Omegian has gone crazy and is talking to himself o.o |
nedflanders
99+ day(s) ago | Omeg: my stance is that SBs are only OP`ed when a miner uses them for UWs. They are balanced when other races use them for UWs and are balanced for regular play. I`ve never really found someone basing up on TB servers to be too much of a problem after I figured out the right strategy to deal with them. |
Omegian
99+ day(s) ago | @omeg: yes it`s not a wipe a lot of the time, but what`s the guy with SB`s gonna do? attack you with his dummies? This is the beauty/balance of building bases...you can base up as much as you want, but you tend to get killed very easily because people know what you have! And if you are smart, you`d never hit someone basing up into DP without nearly wiping them anyways.
SBs are meant to be defensive, and in most cases you dont get killed very easily, unless 2x or your higher already. The fact is as HB has noted as have I, the Lakko is overpowered in terms of UW reward or use. Most times the SBs are in bulk spams so its kinda pointless to attack an SB spammer unless your 120%+ above them. I miss the days I could attack from under on sb people and win 1-2 colonies just because i had the right ships. |
GradualIncline
99+ day(s) ago | Give me a Light Fighter Drone or M.Hal with missiles, then let me have fun with base spammers, problem with me now is the only a-miner ships that can go after lakkos are the Lyth, at like a one to one ratio, not really efficient with the upkeep differences, or something like the Calcite, or Chlorite, with really crummy BR, and again, not that effective. An M.Hal like ship with missile damage instead however would be able to do some serious damage, but in regular situations, against capital ships with no retal, would be blown away, and so wouldn`t be spammed too often, except against SB spammers, call it a low cost specialty ship, since I don`t know many people who use something like the M.Hal ecept when they are first starting out, specifically because capital ships have such a field day with them.
For example, if you used, as I decided to do, M.Hals, vs Hokos, you aren`t using any minerals to build them, and are killing four Hokos per turn of M.Hals. Great for cash strapped empires with no ability to buy from an empty mineral market, unlike the Light Fighter Drone, which costs 1 composite for each drone. Wears out your Composite stockpiles fast. Also, the upkeep is very low with the Hal, also a plus.
Anyway, I forgot where I was going with this....uhh, take what you will from the post. I`m going back to bed. |
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