Deiloche
2010-02-23 |  | So, what is abuse? |  |
There has been a lot of controversy caused lately by MK`s use of the UW function. Much of this has been saying that this is abuse of the UW function. This brings up the question of what "is" abuse. Several things that COULD be argued as abuse:
A-Buying out the food market by going far over the limit and simply burning food
B-Buying out any market and burning resources
C-Buying out a market when resetting just to burn your credits and similarly impact the market
D-Hoarding/buying up minerals to prevent opposition from having the minerals to fight a UW, or fight at all
E-Buying a huge number of resources not because you need them but because you can and have nothing else to do
F-Holding on to a UW well past it`s natural expiry time and not due to inactivity
NONE of this is currently labeled abuse. Of them all, I consider A to be by far the worst, and yet it is the most acceptable. I guess not everybody plays tax empires that have to VM for six months of a paid because their empire cannot play, not because there isn`t enough agriculture production but because empires artificially inflate the market price to screw taxers. Specifically virals. :P
So, here`s the question: What do the masses think is abuse?
Notes from my end:
-For F, I hope to ask Stephen whether or not this is meant to be a part of the game. If it`s not, then we need to make publicly visible rules stating that it isn`t, adding constraints and potential fallout.
-I am working on a proposal to stop A entirely, and to limit E (which only affects RT).
-D is completely legitimate and frankly there`s absolutely no way to stop it.
-B is a set containing A, so my plans for A include B.
-C cannot really be stopped, though it would be faced with the same restrictions as B. |
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ImaVirusOhNoz
99+ day(s) ago | yea u can make it so housing/agriculture research can increase your food cap so that tax empires can ahve there needed food supply to meet with the increasedhousing lvls like the CGs/RM storage increase cant have 1 income cap+ without lookin at rest :P |
Slavyzz
99+ day(s) ago | I like the idea of extra storage based off of your research level. Even 1-2% more storage per level would make it a lot nicer. |
sumarian
99+ day(s) ago | hmm, increase tax empires food storage. So when food prices are good we can store more then an hours worth of food. :) |
Deiloche
99+ day(s) ago | Definitely agreed on the separate code basis. Certainly what I would do if I were running GC.
And yeah, the lowered mineral cap has been suggested for months. That is a change I will not back down on. :P |
ScarletTears
99+ day(s) ago | the point of idea`s are to get people thinking yet lately what this thread has become is a place for bickering, a place where everyone can slap labels on one another and criticize rather than work together and find solutions if any solutions need finding. i personally feel that nothing needs to be changed. the only idea i did like was on purposed months ago about lowering the mineral storage cap for everyone, but making it so that those who researched mining would gain added storage space at different degree`s depending on how much research was put into mining. I feel that agri empires should have a similar expanded storage capacity for food and perhaps for Raw mat. and that Industry empires should have an increased capacity for Cg`s dependent on how many lvls of infra in these groups they research this would prevent plausible losses from market returns, yeah it takes coding but it`s another idea.
Or how about a more audacious idea for all those whining about what is and isn`t a market transfer, it really is a simple solution, if you buy anything from any one you`re known to have any sort of relations with both the seller and buy get turn suspension simple sweet and almost all of GC would be left without turns. Or you could tag the post of the seller with their name beside their post so that everyone can see what is what so that they know they can`t buy resources from fed mates or those who they`re known to have associations with.
honestly what should be done is that each server should be coded and treated separately rather than applying the same exact rules and regs that still apparently aren`t optimized to find a happy medium between all the servers. it`s absolutely ludicrous trying to balance a game that has so many different variables between servers.
United in name and spirit but not in rules and regs. |
Deiloche
99+ day(s) ago | Afraid not. Firstly, that wouldn`t really help RT all that much given that the problem is that people buy until they hit the max. Secondly, given that one mineral miner with six c2s can overwhelm the market on TB, it would make mineral miners obsolete, as goods/tax miners would make plenty enough minerals to supply a server. Thirdly, it would effectively quarter the cost of minerals to build a ship, which is a significant factor in ship cost. |
ArchAng3l
99+ day(s) ago | I think scarlet idea of reducing mineral price might work... more mineral for the same amount of players.. |
Brandonia
99+ day(s) ago | Saint Aacra, your devoted servants await for you to make your will known. We have been farting, as you have instructed, however we seem to have only created stinkyness. We are no closer to enlightenment or salvation.
We have tried purchasing all the food in an attempt at just and righteous market manipulation, however we seem to lack the funds necessary to accomplish such a goal.
We have tried to sell all our food at a low price, but this has brought us poverty and starvation.
As you voice has been heard in the past by the chosen, we ask for you once again to let your voice be heard. Tell us your will, our master! |
ImaVirusOhNoz
99+ day(s) ago | lol .... not-smart .... |
ear614
99+ day(s) ago | see this is what happens when people use drugs. |
Aacra
99+ day(s) ago | did you say something brandonia?? it sounded like a big fart, it has about as much meaningful content.... |
Brandonia
99+ day(s) ago | Saint Aacra, Patron Saint of Food, and Market Manipulation. I, being a mere mortal, and having only played GCRT for 15 days, am struggling to understand your true will. Please help this lowly servant to understand.
You claim your goal is player retention, by keeping food prices low, yet you seek to punish me with your condemnation of patheticness. Since your most lowly servant is new to your dominion, being in humble devotion for less then 15 days, I ask am I being tested? Are you allowing me to prove my worth by rising above your accusations? Or are you exerting your will through angry words? For I am learning that you can be an angry god.
I ask this Saint Aacra. If you truly desire to keep players, would it not be more logical to assist new players? To inform them of your will before such a public condemnation? Or is your true desire to not keep players, but to continue to exert your will over the food market? Melting the wings of even the most devoted of servants if they seek to reach for the sun that is your might? Is it not the duty of a servant to strive to be like thine master? Should I not then seek to replicate your very actions of market manipulation, which you have so proudly admitted? I struggle to keep the faith, please give me a sign oh mighty lord. Help a new servant such as myself understand your true will.
Also, Saint Aacra, please bless this unbelievable fortune which I obviously and unknowingly must possess, so that I might continue purchasing vast sums of your chosen sacrificial food. So that I might burn it in your most holy name, with no financial return, for as it is stated thou shalt not hold more then 2 billion, for that would be greedy.
Amen. |
sumarian
99+ day(s) ago | Sure seems to be alot of very rich 10 day old empires out there lately. i know its possible, Just seems unlikely. Lots of lucky hitters out there getting good land with there newbie empires. grats. :) |
Aacra
99+ day(s) ago | 11:57 PM 28/02/10 Brandonia bought 848,431,674 units of Food for 11,029,611,762 $ !
11:55 PM 28/02/10 Brandonia bought 765,999,999 units of Food for 9,957,999,987 $ !
1:37 PM 28/02/10 Brandonia bought 999,999,999 units of Food for 12,999,999,987 $ !
1:37 PM 28/02/10 Brandonia bought 999,999,999 units of Food for 12,999,999,987 $ !
1:37 PM 28/02/10 Brandonia bought 999,999,999 units of Food for 12,999,999,987 $ !
1:36 PM 28/02/10 Brandonia bought 999,999,999 units of Food for 11,999,999,988 $ !
1:36 PM 28/02/10 Brandonia bought 999,999,999 units of Food for 11,999,999,988 $ !
1:36 PM 28/02/10 Brandonia bought 999,999,999 units of Food for 11,999,999,988 $ !
1:36 PM 28/02/10 Brandonia bought 999,999,999 units of Food for 11,999,999,988 $ !
1:35 PM 28/02/10 Brandonia bought 999,999,999 units of Food for 11,999,999,988 $ !
1:35 PM 28/02/10 Brandonia bought 495,999,999 units of Food for 5,951,999,988 $ !
1:35 PM 28/02/10 Brandonia bought 999,999,999 units of Food for 10,999,999,989 $ !
10:02 AM 28/02/10 Brandonia bought 900,000,000 units of Food for 12,600,000,000 $ !
10:02 AM 28/02/10 Brandonia bought 999,999,999 units of Food for 12,999,999,987 $ !
10:01 AM 28/02/10 Brandonia bought 999,999,999 units of Food for 12,999,999,987 $ !
10:01 AM 28/02/10 Brandonia bought 999,999,999 units of Food for 12,999,999,987 $ !
10:01 AM 28/02/10 Brandonia bought 879,000,000 units of Food for 11,427,000,000 $ !
10:01 AM 28/02/10 Brandonia bought 999,999,999 units of Food for 11,999,999,988 $ !
10:01 AM 28/02/10 Brandonia bought 999,999,999 units of Food for 11,999,999,988 $ !
10:00 AM 28/02/10 Brandonia bought 999,999,999 units of Food for 11,999,999,988 $ !
10:00 AM 28/02/10 Brandonia bought 500,000,000 units of Food for 6,000,000,000 $ !
8:03 AM 28/02/10 Brandonia bought 223,000,000 units of Food for 2,676,000,00
and there is more, it just wont fit in under 2000 characters, lol |
Aacra
99+ day(s) ago | Fed Name Wall Street, Inc.
Fed ID 8011
Leader Brandonia
Short Desc. By owning the market, we control the game.
what ever are you pooor starving people gonna eat?? why would i associate you to those greedy new york bankers? lol Demonize you just by your fed name, not by your actions? your reposting at 13 eh??? lol, liar. Your whole write up is such a farse, the only true part of it is what i wrote and you copied and pasted. |
Aacra
99+ day(s) ago | I am a firm believer in using the market as a stategic tool, brandon, and i didnt hinder loof in his ability to play spacefed, i just made it more difficult for him to maintain a fleet of 141mil pr lyth, and just for the duration our fighting which was of a relatively short duratoin. With his income he can still play quite confortably with practically any other fleet at the same pr. What you are doing by buying all, and let me repeat "ALL" of the food up to 13 and reposting it at 14 is making every tax virals on the server go into vm, or stop playing. With the amount of profit you are allowing tax virals to make, "virtually nothing", you are forcing them to fight extremely low pr, which taxers cant do because of high base pr or vm. Considering the amount of food you have been buying, you are reshaping the market atmostsphere in a way that prohibits a large portion of a whole race from playing. and dont say my fed, and we, you are the only person in your fed. What makes you think that every person that buys food needs to pay you a special tribute?? |
Loof
99+ day(s) ago | alot of people have gone mineral miner on normal lately, the market will stabilize without that, on slow fast and ultra there is already plenty minerals and as pete pointed out it will hurt the mineral miners economy, as people on those servers (perhaps with the exception of ultra if there go like 6 months or more between uw`s) only buy minerals to build ships and not to hide cash. |
ImaVirusOhNoz
99+ day(s) ago | but would also bring a bigger income for TB like normal for instance :P in cases of it being DEAD of minerals the miners can produce it that much faster regardless price to bounce the market back into place >.> |
PistolPete
99+ day(s) ago | ST: Your suggestion will x up mineral miners at most TB servers i think. The reason why Minerals are in demand at RT server is noe because they are used building ships, but because people stock them up, because they hit max cash, or want to avoid MDs. It is not hard to supply the whole RT server with minerals, all it takes is that people use the cash on ship upkeep, instead of stocking them up. This was the casebefore i UWed.. My miner alone had a production that could supply the whole server with minerals, and add to that all the other mineral miners. The server could not absorb the amount of minerals we produced because of the simple fact that people were active and used their money on fighting. |
Brandonia
99+ day(s) ago | Care to explain Aacra? Or is my fed`s name and description enough for condemnation? If you really want to get into the blaming game, why not look back at your own posts where you do admit to market manipulation:
"and I really dont try and tie your hands with the market...... unless your hammering me with a 141mill lyth spam for days on end"
So, you are the nice guy, giving food to all the poor people, unless someone attacks you that is. By your own words you are guilty of the very actions you are condemning. Yet, in your eyes, my fed`s name and description are enough to demonize me? I guess you are hoping your good actions will more then make up for any bad actions you might do, and since you are doing good things for the market you now have a moral authority to tell the rest of us how to act?
Well Saint Aacra, tell me then. What should I name my fed? What description could I use to not offend your most virtuous eyes? Is the name of my empire offensive to you? Should I change that too?
How about buying food? My people are starving and I need to buy them food. Right now there is some food left at 12, if I buy it to feed my starving empire am I a bad guy since that will put the market up to 13. By buying food am I now guilty of market manipulation?
Oh, that`s right. It`s not my actions that are offensive, it`s that I call my fed Wall Street, Inc.. That`s what`s offensive to you. Associating myself the those greedy bankers in New York. Since the association is there, and I have purchased food, I must be one of the "pathetic reasons" why food prices are so high. So are you attacking me, or are you making a political statement? I thought politics was a banned discussion? But now since we are discussing closing down a free market, and demonizing those whose name associates themselves with the very essence of capitalism, aren`t we now getting political?
I forgot. How dare I question the Saint who once sold food for 10. |
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