hagios
2009-11-02 |  | terren race |  |
I was wondering what the best way is to run an terren empire like get good income but still make a good based cash amount.
( I have 3 c1s maxed in agr and commercial with 27kincome) |
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Orglon
99+ day(s) ago | In response to Raistilin, he`s correct, an Ag. Terran is not restricted to just U.Fertiles. I argue however, that even up to CL3`s, it`s better to be a Comm. Terran for the reasons set below. The "cost" of production verses developing Comm. Terrans makes an Ag. Terran even more vulnerable to the markets than if he stuck to Fertiles alone. I don`t mean to say that putting farmers on CL`s is a bad idea. I`m just saying I think it would be wiser to develop them as a Comm Terran, especially if one is new to the game. |
Orglon
99+ day(s) ago | which brings me to 6) An Ag terran risks being pwned by non ag species or Terrans in the food market. Oversupply will eventually run food prices down to 1credit per unit with a lengthy float. A rich non-Ag empire could then step in, buy up all the food, and keep reselling it up to astronomical lvls (for a short time until the producers start flooding the market). When the producers jump in the market any excess food the non-AG`s have could then be used to drive down prices again. (once they have made money on the trade any left over food is free and can be sold at any price for a profit) This type of market manipulation can put the Ag empires into a vicious spiral. The price spread limits their profits and nerfs cartels. They may end up working very hard to make non-ag`s rich. This is not a winning game strategy unless the Ag. player is aware of the market and always ready to profit from price fluctuations. In sum, playing an Ag. empire is trickier and more complex (but potentially vastly more profitable) than playing a Comm. Terran. It`s perfect for the skilled player looking for a challenge. |
Orglon
99+ day(s) ago | 5) Price rigidity refers to the price controls the game throws on the food and raw materials market. Currently raw materials can not be sold over 4 credits per unit. Food prices (unless there is no food on the market) must be sold (roughly) within 50% of the current market price (no negative numbers). This combined with storage caps means food cartels can not dictate price by refusing to sell below a certain price. So forget allying with a few of your AG. buddies to form an OPEC like cartel. If you want to sell at 14 credits per unit you can not if the current spread is 0-8 (current price at 3). Therefore to guarantee an income you must sell at below market prices (further eroding your income potential) or let it circulate for days at a higher yet fixed price. Occasionally you will sell everything when manipulators jump into the markets but unless an AG is skilled or exceptionally lucky he will not profit as much as the manipulators. |
Raistilin
99+ day(s) ago | Okay, first off just because fertiles are the best in modifiers doesn`t mean you`re stuck with just them. I had a 13k fertile making 1m food per turn and 102k c3 making 3.5m Obviously we realize the fertile has better mods, but ultimately the biggest concern when making an agri terran is food prices currently. They are stuck at 5 and lower, which still wouldn`t be too bad, but honestly a waste if you were gunning for a decent fertile and empire. Also paid accounts only get a higher storage of turns and turn regeneration, no market changes. |
Orglon
99+ day(s) ago | 4) "float" in this case refers to the amount of time a commodity such as food or raw materials must stay on the market before it is sold. The raw materials market is almost always over supplied. The food market is often oversupplied. This means the food or raw material an Ag. Terran throws on the market could feasibly circulate on the market for weeks before being sold. The bigger the AG. empire the worse the situation could become. My unpaid account maxs out my food storage at 1,999,999,999. anything above that is lost to cyberspace. Presumably paids have higher storage but beyond a certain point you`re just not going to sell the food or raw materials if the demand is not there. This oversupply drives prices down further hurting the Ag. Terran`s bottom line. While this is not so bad to a maxed lvl AG., selling food at 1 or 2 credits per unit could be crippling to a smaller empire just starting out. The float in the raw materials market is particularly bad and no wise Ag. Terran would rely on it for anything other than rock bottom prices and sporadic demand. |
Orglon
99+ day(s) ago | 3) The difficulties developing U.fertiles revolves around finding gordos to raise the max land. This means the Ag. Terrran should develop his artifacts project before he gets out of newbie protection. This is good advice for the Comm terrran as well but it is essential for an Ag Terran. Nothing could be more unfortunate for the Ag Terran than to find a Fertile before he has had a chance to max out the previous Fertile. RT players have it really rough in that they come out of DP every 24 hours. |
Orglon
99+ day(s) ago | 2) While U.Fertiles are not that uncommon the Ag Terran will have to explore many planets to find one. A small sporadic early income combined with a lack of steady income while exploring makes exploring (much less fighting) a much more problematic endeavor. |
Orglon
99+ day(s) ago | In the first case It is much more profitable to put lvls into Comm on the Terrran homeworld or virtually any other planet they might find except the U.Fertiles. This means until the Terran finds/captures a U.Fertile his cash flow will be sporatic and below that of the Comm. Terrans. |
Orglon
99+ day(s) ago | Some of the caveats or downside to an AG. Terran are 1) slow start 2) relative scarcity of U.Fertile planets 3) relative difficulties in developing U.Fertiles 4) "float", both in the food and raw materials markets 5) price rigidity in both the food and raw materials market. 6) susceptibility to market manipulators. |
Orglon
99+ day(s) ago | Looking at the AG. Terran verses Comm Terran. The best case "cost" of production for the Ag. Terran must be calculated lvl for lvl verses the Comm. Terran on a U.Fertile planet. For Example: If a terran has at 255 lvls in Ag. (the max lvl one can get to, if I am not mistaken) the cost of production is equal to what he would have gotten had he put 255 lvls into Comm. Using the formula`s provided by Vendeen below, cost of production is roughly 1.14 credits per food unit. This does not count raw materials production which would put the "cost" significantly below 1 credit overall. At first glance this would seem to indicate that AG. is a winner every time. There are serious caveats to this assumption however which I will go at length in my next post. |
Aacra
99+ day(s) ago | i wouldnt really calculate rm, as a money maker for agri, cause it usually rots, not sells |
Raistilin
99+ day(s) ago | Kelti, on my agri empire making 4.5m food a turn when food was at 18, i was able to keep making money easily on a 60-70m per turn upkeep fleet. So it IS more profitable if the market is in your favor :) |
keltikelti
99+ day(s) ago | just for fun anyone who has battle sim try changing the veiw to upkeep and see how high you`d be able to build with different types of ships with 37 mil income.. such as building to 2 bill pr with pure small fodders. (Power rating cap is 1.2 bill) |
keltikelti
99+ day(s) ago | srry forgot to mention that there are too many agri empires cause every1 think`s it`s the most profitable income i disagree i can afford to buy food at 100 each and make a killing still |
keltikelti
99+ day(s) ago | here`s a simple answer
i have 312,872 Toatal land
these are my infrastructure lvl`s
Housing 20
Commercial 237
this is how much i make per turn
Total Credit 37,810,002 |
Raistilin
99+ day(s) ago | Finding a fertile isn`t as difficult as trying to get the gordos to make the fertile effective. Current market prices would make it almost pointless, but markets never stay the same. |
Orglon
99+ day(s) ago | Ok I am satisfied Vendeen calculations are valid. So what do these numbers mean as far as game play? As Vendeen has said the AG. production is like socialism perfect in theory but hard in practice. I`ll behindyze the equations with different inputs (say max the lvls), probability of finding Fertiles (which i still don`t know... Vendeen?), market mechanics and more. Commentary to follow. |
WhatIsTheMatrix
99+ day(s) ago | also entirely dependent on a heavily modified and completely unnatural u fert. |
Orglon
99+ day(s) ago | Yeah this makes a lot more sense, half the problem with algebraic equations is the English LOL. thx for your patience, I was afraid after rereading my posts that I might have come across a little impatient. You help has been outstanding. |
Vendeen
99+ day(s) ago | [(agriculture infrastructure <--(# of infrastructure on the planet) ) * [ 1 <-- (base of 1 production per infra) + (research lvl / 10) <--(Changes levels into +10% bonus (+0.1 per lvl)) ] * (1 <--(Base 100% modifier) + [race modifier / 100] <-- (Changes the base modifier into the race modifier) )] * (1 <--(base planet production of 1) + Planet Bonus/100 <-- (Changes the +xxx% into decimal format) )
The "/" in "46.2 Food/RM" means "with", commonly used as "and" or "and/or". Just to prevent further confusion, food and RM have the same income equations (last time I checked, lol).
Food terrans make a lot more money, but you still have the drawback of little to no credit income per turn, and you`re completely reliant on the market and finding and gordo-ing a U. Fertile.
Here`s an example of income on a balanced planet (homeworld), with 100 research in agriculture:
[(1) * [ 1 + (100 / 10) ] * (1 + [120 / 100])] * (1 + 0/100)
1*11*1.2 = 13.2 Food&RM per turn.
13.2 vs 46.2. U. Fertiles are THAT important to agriculture races.
15.84 income per infra on C2s, so you`d need C2s 46.2/15.84 = 2.91x the size of a fertile to equal the income. That being said, 55/15.84 = 3.47, so you wouldn`t make a profit unless food was above 4 on a C2.
Food production is kinda like socialism, in theory, it`s perfect, but in practice, it`s pretty hard to do. |
