Deiloche
2009-07-15 |  | Income Adjustments Discussion |  |
NOTE: This may not happen. We still need to get Paid Staff or Stephen to implement these, as well as get the itech to work temporarily so that races may change their infra. However, we would like to do this.
Contributors: EphemeralEternity, BrokenSwordS, Deiloche, Raistlin, Omegian
MARKET LIMITS
250 minimum on all minerals
3 minimum on goods
5 maximum on goods
4 minimum on food
2500 minimum on ore
1 minimum on raw material
Viral
-Commerce modifier dropped to -95%
-Infected clusters given the ability to use industry and agriculture
-Agriculture yield on infected clusters similar to that of c.4s.
-Giving the industry modifier to the virals a number sufficient such that at 4 per unit a CG viral would make more income than an agriculture viral would make at a decent level of 9 or 10. Exact numbers not worked out yet.
With those stats that would make tax and agriculture equal in income around 13 per unit of food with industry a little behind if food were at that price. Agriculture tends to fluctuate up and down, but a fairly standard `steady` level is 9 or 10, because most taxers appreciate that type and will buy at that level, hence why the industrial mod is going to be aimed to match at that level. Industry tends to be more stable, and given that a lot of virals will be going tax and agri there should be an even higher demand for goods.
Marauder
Plunder bonus: +400% > +900%
The increase in plunder bonus there will effectively double how much plunder marauders make. This will dramatically improve their ability to play with the new ship upkeeps.
Collective
Plunder bonus: +200 > +300%
Tax mod: -50% > -10%
Goods demand: -95% > -50%
Note: Collectives would NOT have their infected clusters able to make agri. A good collective would probably do both tax and agri, with c.4s making agri and c3s doing tax.
A.Miner
Industry Efficiency: +200% > +350%
Effective 50% increase for industry for a.miners.
Terran
Industry Efficiency: 0% > 50%
Terran n00b can do all incomes.
Edited by BrokenSwordS on 2009-07-15 |
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OttOmaNS
99+ day(s) ago | i kinda like some of the changes, but why nerf the commerce ? And arch if i remember correctly thats how u were suppose to play, rarehunter told me about it, that these racial modifiers were made to do half tax half agri, idk why lol. |
PistolPete
99+ day(s) ago | Thats a very good point archy! I don`t see how this should be prevented either. |
Archaeoptyrex
99+ day(s) ago | this i think is the main abuse ... I think tax virals should be forbidden to switch tech ... |
Archaeoptyrex
99+ day(s) ago | i hate to bring up this issue -- allowing people to swap techs is open to some abuse.
it allows (false) dual production.
e.g. If a tax viral asks a swap to food production.
he can firstly put half on his land into housing and half into food.
he has the massive pop from his housing infra
but *after* the tech change, he is producing masses of food ...
that means dual max research paths in one |
PistolPete
99+ day(s) ago | Safe bets will be terrans and guardians, as they dont rely on market.
Anyway.. having a safe bet is one thing, and I honestly don`t see the problem in having that. It is kinda hard to switch the viral back to terran, to adapt to these changes :P. The most serious issue IMO is how you will let so many empires change production without screwing up the food market. |
BadwolfsPet
99+ day(s) ago | i just dont understand why its going to be near impossible to be comm viral anymore... why do we need that? :S |
BadwolfsPet
99+ day(s) ago | why nerf viral so much? i dont understand why your lowering the comm income? im just setting up as a comm viral and now i wont make nearly as much, would we comm virals be able to reassign our infra at least to be fair? |
Deiloche
99+ day(s) ago | If you want a safe bet, stay terran. |
ChaosReborn
99+ day(s) ago | These are good changes, with all the inflation in the market is almost impossible to get anything now since most people went to UC and everything is too expensive to buy |
Terminus
99+ day(s) ago | the main problem with collectives doing tax is the big base pr, that joinned with the medium-low build capacity of collective make it not really worth it, after all most gms say that collectives are designed to be low or medium pr players. |
Ragnarok
99+ day(s) ago | " Note: Collectives would NOT have their infected clusters able to make agri. A good collective would probably do both tax and agri, with c.4s making agri and c3s doing tax. "
I always figured that the two were mutually exclusive income paths, and it`s never a good idea to go dual income unless you`re miner going either CG/Mining or Tax/Mining.
However, I do think it`s a good idea to open up tax as a possible income route for collective considering that it allows them to see c1, c2, c3 as more than just a plunder target. |
Archaeoptyrex
99+ day(s) ago | blazin, remember this ain`t a nerf -- agri/ind viral would both make more $$ |
Blazin
99+ day(s) ago | While i do like the majority of modifications being made here i find it absolutely ridiculous that you are proposing to nerf commercial viral income out of existence. Viral is a paying race and you already took away d class from them. why is it necessary to nerf a paying and fun race so completely. |
Africa
99+ day(s) ago | I think this could be a cool thing, but I think it will mess up the economy.
It would be cool to make everyone dependent on the market, but only as long as you can adapt.
Man, I will get pissed if I cant play cause food exceeds whatever the limit is for me as a viral to make cash. I for one will not pay for a game where I cant even use turns. I dont think that will keep new players paying either.
And dont say it has always been like that. Commercial was a safe bet which I think is more than fair if your gonna pay for a game.
The game has far to few players for the economy to have any kind of buffering capacity, so making everyone depending on something they cannot adapt to is risky. |
OttOmaNS
99+ day(s) ago | how about increasing the tax yeild on terran >? |
Deiloche
99+ day(s) ago | Read what I said. I said exactly what ratio it would be changed to, just not what the exact modifier would be because there is no point doing that if we are not going through with it. :P |
PistolPete
99+ day(s) ago | And btw. I think you should figure out what those percantages will be before virals get to change their infrastructure, as that is the only fair way of doing it IMO.
Another thing that you should consider would be to change the empires infrastructure gradually over a couple of months, so that we don`t get 10 new agri virals and 1 tax viral at a server at one time. This will make each empire make a choice that is based on a relatively stabil market. |
PistolPete
99+ day(s) ago | Ya.. i tried that formula and don`t think a got something very accurate when i tested it. But i`ll try to use it anyway. So the calculation will be carried out the easy way based on a viral, for which i know the goods consumption..
A population of 3.390.000 millions will generate an income of:
(3.390.000 / 2) + (((3.390.000 * 2.500) / 5.000) * 0.15) = 1.949.250
This population will generate following credits from goods on a viral empire, 3,398,295. Since virals have a 100% modifier, and guards have a -90% modifier on consumption, what you get as a guard is:
3.398.295 * 0,05 = 169.914
This is the answer to my question. And given this result is right, I don`t consider this a problem at all. |
Karnage
99+ day(s) ago | Tax (GC)
[(pop / 2) + ( ( pop x loyalty / 5000)] x racial attribute
this taxation is calculated individually for each and every planet, so an average (or overall) calculation may be slightly different.
this is the correct formula |
PistolPete
99+ day(s) ago | But goods never go to 1. And the market will never regulate itself perfectly by supply and demand. At least not in that way. And it doesn`t change the fact that more goods production will improve the tax income for any tax race compared to what we have seen at least the last year. And all I am asking for is the estimates of how much this will improve tax income for the different races, as this is quite an important parameter, and I am sure some of the guys who suggested these changes must have thought of it.
That said I find it a somewhat a gamble to let so many empires swith infrastructure so fast. This is destined to screw up the balance of the food market at the different TB servers. And as the fast server has had a massive overproduction of food the last year, my guess is that this will x up the food market at the slower servers for years - as none of the big empires want to restart an empire that they have spend years building. |
