Deiloche
2009-07-15 |  | A.Miner Update Discussion |  |
Constructive criticism ONLY. If you don`t like something, say why. If you do like something, also say why. Useless posts are unacceptable.
Changes courtesy of: EphemeralEternity, BrokenSwordS, Deiloche
G.Lictor
ES: 80 > 40
KS: 40 > 80
Concept behind this change is to give A.Miners a strong anti kinetic ship, which is something severely lacking in the race. It still a big meat shield, but at least it will be able to soak up damage from some of the more powerful kinetic ships.
Lyth
Upkeep: 170% > 135%
OR
Upkeep: 170% > 120%
PR: 30kish > 50kish
BR: 2 > 1
OR
Upkeep: 170% > 120%
PR: 30kish > 25kish
120% puts the lyth in similar range with nirvana, tyr, aragonite, and the chlor for those familiar with fighting with those ships. But at 120% that is too low of an upkeep for a 60k BR. So the idea would be to lower it to a 50k BR, either by changing the BR to 1 and making the ship bigger, or making the ship smaller. Stats would maintain themselves relative to PR, so ratios would not change but actual values would.
G.Livid (r)
Upkeep: 160% > 120%
A good niche ship, the livid is massively underused largely due to it`s excessive upkeep.
A.Hoko
Upkeep: 14.6% > 35%
The A.Hoko is not a huge powerhouse except in UWs, but even in regular usage the upkeep on this ship is far too low, especially for a race as wealthy as A.Miners.
M.Lakko
Upkeep: 21.2% > 40%
The M.Lakko is a pretty good defensive ship and as it`s better than the Hoko it needs more upkeep. However, in maintaining with the standards of the defensive A.Miner race, this ship will maintain a low upkeep.
A.Kryo
Upkeep: 60% > 30%
The kryo is the weakest miner SB and costs way too much. Hence... upkeep reduction ftw.
Edited by BrokenSwordS on 2009-07-15 |
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PistolPete
99+ day(s) ago | Almost a year since this thread was opened. How is the starbase balancing coming along? |
GradualIncline
99+ day(s) ago | Well, as long as we get a reduction elsewhere, especially the livid and lyth *glares at the lyth* :P |
PistolPete
99+ day(s) ago | I gotta give SibirianGun that the upkeep of the bases is a joke.. When i was a miner, i spammed the bases to 200 mil everytime i had DP, just because they cost nothing to build. Changing the upkeep the way it is suggested will be a good update. The bases are still super cheap for miners to build even with the new upkeep. This update should be followed up by an upkeep reduction of livid and lyth. Especially the the livid is way too expensive to build. |
GradualIncline
99+ day(s) ago | ....You ever read the description of A-miners? We`re supposed to be known for our bases. It`s like taking out the characteristics that makes your race special, sort of the same argument that guardians have been using to keep their build rates. |
Sibiriangun
99+ day(s) ago | I think it might be time to reopen the discussion of the miner bases. I have never understood who came up with the idea that Hoko and Lakko should have an upkeep of 1/5 of their PR. They build fast, have range 10, decent weapon to PR ratios, all in all, they are good ships to put in your stack.
Try comparing to terran bases. They have Scorp, which is awful and only useable to break free from enslavement or building PR fast, and a useful Chimera which builds at 20k pr turn. Both with a 1/2 upkeep to PR ratio. Since miners are much richer than terrans I dont see any point in Hoko and Lakko having those low upkeeps.
Cant we redo this, such as were done for Pyth some time ago?
Maybe then we would see some miner UWs which were not only 2 huge stacks of bases... |
Joker
99+ day(s) ago | Wonders what do you guys think about Lakko,Hoko`s upkeep? Almost similar to my pyths & angels upkeep =/
Lakko`s
Pr 11 070
Upkeep 2353
Hoko`s
Pr 9 945
Upkeep 1450 |
Rebanned
99+ day(s) ago | since you all sparked my interest with the second part, thought I would take a look.
the lictor shields should be nice. would make it pair better with my livids :)
lyth should be costly. they are a powerful ship with many applications. increased PR per ship and maybe a MINOR decrease in upkeep, and lyth should be balanced imo. but dare we change the PR too much? wonder how it would hold up per PR with this change. hmm...
livid have high upkeep? hmm, never kept me from using them lol
I did not see the kyro change in part 2.. makes my opinion change slightly on the starbase issue. IF Kyro is given decreased upkeep, we miners will have slightly improved PR jumping ship, which makes me happy. making the other two, far better, bases have a upkeep that better matches their strength would make an effective balancing of the kyro.
keep those creative gears turning and thanks for all your hard work! |
drgnrbrn33
99+ day(s) ago | I do love the idea of bringing the upkeep down on the livid. that is just a fun ship to use on people who forget the Miners have it. |
drgnrbrn33
99+ day(s) ago | I personally like the way the Lictor is , but i hate the Lyth because of the weakness it has against two big killers in the game. The Lyth needs to have a much better defense against kinetic and chemical.
I am not saying to make it into another Lictor, but for crying out loud, give it some protection against kinetic and/or chemical. I hate to use it in my bigger PR stacks because i know that if i am going up against a halfway decent player, then I am gonna lose that stack, because everyone knows how to beat it. Give it a decent bonus in chemical to offset the Lictor`s weakness in chemical and just leave the Lictor. It kills me that a race as wealthy as the A. Miner is would settle for as crabpy a dreadnought as the Lyth. |
quackpack
99+ day(s) ago | I would prefer Lictor to maintain how it is or maybe just increase KS by abit 50 and drop ES to 70. Lictor`s only usage is a meat shield,miner`s attack is just far to weak to properly kill off unless the stack meets weak resistance.
I felt Livid is the only good kinetic ship besides G.sapphire(and of course F class). So I would want the upkeep decrease
Lyth..Lyth..Its usage has pros and cons,would want the build rate to maintain though.
Upkeep: 170% > 120%
PR: 30kish > 25kish
Would want this change if BR is still 2
A.Hoko is a great when its a blob,agree with needing higher upkeep
I would want to have better attack for M.Lakko and Kryo,like 2 kinds of dmg |
BadKarma
99+ day(s) ago | Given more thought G.Lictor should not be changed!!
It`s essential the way it is fighting other A.Miners.
It does not do enough damage to actually make it useful against galleon.
Increase Flysch another 5% kinetic for a actually useful ship in attack against galleon. |
BadKarma
99+ day(s) ago | meh, hehe. I trust you guys anyway. I don`t really follow all the update threads too well anyway. I trust all the changes that would be made have been well thought out by you other people "courtesy of EE, BS, and Diel." I think SPAMS suck and thats basically the best use for chlor, but anyway there was my ten cents. |
Infernal
99+ day(s) ago | the fact you said that chlor sucks means we can just ignore your input now lol. |
BadKarma
99+ day(s) ago | And for the record.. Chlor sucks. ;) |
BadKarma
99+ day(s) ago | I have no read all the previous posts but I`d like to comment on the changes to this race... This is my race and I am not likely to change that... anyway...
I do think that a few extremely high upkeep ships for Aminer are totally reasonable considering the gargantuan income possibilities.
G.Lictor is a decently awkwark ship in my opinion and has its uses... as far as damage... can`t we just give it a tab bit more oomf in both damages and not change the shield ratio? I do not like the suggestion at all 80 > 40 ES and 40 > 80 KS... it`s awkward enough.
If it must be something and i do like change, change is good so minus a little hull, 55% kinetic, and +1000 in both Energy and Kinetic Damage
Energy Damage 10,000 < 11000
Kinetic Damage 4,000 < 5000
Hull 80,000 > 75,000
Energy Shield + 80 %
Absorption Shield + 40 % < + 55 %
ECM + 40 %
Ionized Hull - 40 %
Upkeep 78% < 90%
Lyth is a little extreme, but at the same time should have the highest upkeep in the game.. I would suggest 170% > 145% and identical for Livid.
Livid is under-used not for its upkeep, but cause is seems awkward, but I certainly use that ship and its upkeep is worth it to me. again 160% > 145%
As for the starbases... oh come on big ship spam on aggro and they die, they suck. I love they hoko upkeep.. change the upkeep, toss it another 1,500 hull or 500 (distributed nicely) in damages.
lakko is fine i suppose.. maybe a TAD bit more oomf in damage or hull?
Kyro... great, yep, high upkeep, but it DOES have its uses defending against guardians with its build rate and kinetic shields... would be NICE for it to have only 2 damage types instead of 3 so the weak power is more honed in for at least a subtle use. |
Deiloche
99+ day(s) ago | Then clearly you haven`t seen the G.Livid. |
ChaosReborn
99+ day(s) ago | i liked it better with more energy shield on lictor cause its the only energy tanker for miner i know |
BrokenSwordS
Game-Admin
99+ day(s) ago |
Edited by BrokenSwordS on 2009-07-19 |
GradualIncline
99+ day(s) ago | Lyth
Upkeep: 170% > 135%
for me, don`t go changing the buildrate |
Yoshi
99+ day(s) ago | The only thing that new Lictor change is...it beat kinetic ships..other than that, it still a huge fodder with some power. Every cap can be nice in a spam..( pyth, nirv, hercs ) and list goes on...the good thing is..miner has something to block kinetic...
Aacra, hercs is kinda stronger than the current lictor(even if its a close fight) I would not run liccy into herc:)(unless i have to >,<) |
