EphemeralEternity
2009-06-26 |  | Maraudians new Guard Idea |  |
figured it could use a new thread.
Maraudian
Game-Admin
25hour(s) ago well at the moment i think the guardian are fine , however there is one more thing ide like to throw into the race
large increase in ship cost`s ( Minerals / price )
large cut in upkeep
( this will make building / fighting more expensive and sitting at x pr cheaper )
.....replies so far.....
MastaKilla
3hour(s) ago I agree with Deil
Tourm is too powerful and Topaz/Emmy are too much alike.
And I like Maras suggestion too. That might get guards on the TB servers to stack more.
Deiloche
Game-Guide
10hour(s) ago Changes left that need to be made:
Tourm rebalanced
Amethyst, Fluorite rebalanced
Topaz fixed into a hull ship rather than being an emmy clone with less range
Runnerman
19hour(s) ago this just means new guardians will have to strip-mine for an extra day or 2 b4 they can fight. however for established gaurds that seems fine |
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Euthanasia
99+ day(s) ago | I dont think that this is necassary however if the increase in costs for ships is implemented there should be a decrease in scout ship cost to compensate (upkeep can stay the same). This is not to help higher players but to make it possible for new guards to start up without being further crippled by additional costs. Because this change imo could easily make it practically impossible to start up on turn based servers. |
LtCommander
99+ day(s) ago | Both Runnerman & Squaks make very good points.
So looking at the top empires list at this given time (06:49 PM 28 Jun 2009 server time), lets see what races we have in the top 20...
A.Miner = 5
Terran = 6
Marauder = 1
Viral = 7
Guardian = 1
So on this day and this time we have one Guard at number 20 spot.
If this update Maraudian has in mind can put a few more Guards in the top 20 then I am all for it.
After all said and done, if the idea does not work out Maraudian would change it back would he not? |
Squaks
99+ day(s) ago | CC: you have a good point about us building up faster than anyone but you need to keep in mind that if we are building up fast and someone attacks us with say lyth, tyr, herc, pyth, or angels and are spamming they will easily wipe out any fast building guard fleet if they did it right |
collective1
99+ day(s) ago | i dont understand...guardians already have extraordinarily low upkeeps compared to cost, less than 1:100. as if they need any further discouragement from making attacks! |
Runnerman
99+ day(s) ago | squaks: because upkeep, mineral cost, and cost per ship is something i beleive mara has the power to do on his own, unlike say making housing go from -85% to -65%, you need stephen |
CounterCrazy
99+ day(s) ago | Maru, hope you keep in mind the rich Guards plus the poor ones.
To me i rather up the prices of minerials like crazy if guard ships are cheaper. Reason why is alot of guards are either rich high power fighting guards or low power newbie hunter guards. Plus the power of guard ships on careful already is extremely g@y.
A Guard can already out build & constantly attack a player, spamming or stacking they damange they do is crazy generally, sometimes im amazed to see someone not lose a ton of ships in a small battle with a guard (spamming or stacking), players who are spamming actually do better vs a guard sadly to say it.
Viral & Guard are 2 ridiculous races, viral is at least balancing out, guard will never be balanced cause they are suppose to be overpowering, however is this overpowering affect of the guard race & Viral race to much?
i give it another 6 months to see results for the viral changes, however for guard who knows. |
Squaks
99+ day(s) ago | who not just make the income better for guards, i feel the upkeep and mineral cost is fine atm and i personally like the mineral cost to be low cause i already fight at higher prs if i plan on stacking |
Atractor
99+ day(s) ago | I say go ahead with that idea (upkeep/cost)
last ships balancing are enough for me, in general have a better topaz and emmy and worst ruby and gorundum. that was in order to stack more and have more range for can be more agressive. Is OK |
Maraudian
99+ day(s) ago | in rough i think between 10% to 25% alteration`s would be interesting , anything more a bit overkill
the correct balance of upkeep cost drop to price increase is as arch says very important.
its a project that may take a bit of time unless a simple formula is made for them , like 1% upkeep drop = 2% increase in price
( that little formula is an example ) |
ArchAng3l
99+ day(s) ago | topaz emmy is not really that alike.. topaz is good for defense, emmy good for offensive.. if i want hull, i have garnet already.. if you increase the hull of topaz, to balance things out you will definitely decrease the range or racial mod... then we have another garnet :S if you want to change topaz, make sure to change garnet too.. having 2 ship of garnet type is not useful at all..
as for the upkeep reduce i like the idea..
the prob with guard is the low income.. actually the limiting factor of how high and how long a guard can fight really is due to the upkeep.. we have low upkeep to compensate for low income so that we can build higher... but the low income cause guard to need considerable amount of time to stay online and in dp using turns to earn some money in order to have fund to come out of dp to fight.. and guard cant last as long fighting compare to other race.. hence guard usually will climb to fight, then have to disband their ship in order to reduce upkeep as much as possible so as to recoup their money to fight more...
increase of cost of ship will not affect newer guard much since they can build and fight.. keep their remaining ship without needing to disband and use turns to earn money.. then they can restack abit and reuse those ship to fight without needing building from scatch again..
another advantage of reducing upkeep is giving guard, especially those which is not establish, more incentive to build useful high upkeep neutral ship such as c.class and f.class when fighting..
the disadvantage of this it might create unbalance for those guard who is already establish.. hence its important to choose the right balance on reducing upkeep and increase ship cost... such as even increasing upkeep of kclass since usually only establish guard empire have kclass.. |
LtCommander
99+ day(s) ago | I agree EE, as I have said also.... Depends on how its balanced. |
EphemeralEternity
99+ day(s) ago | i`m not concerned by guardians ruling the upper echelons, any race has always had the potential to chose where they sit at in pr`s based on their income type, building strategies, ship choices and of course allegiances.
base pr should also never be a viable reason for an up date either, the only time base pr`s should come into play is when that empire is no longer able to explore, and that is a personal preference by a player not restricted by the race. sure a guard with a 3 mil pr base would have to climb higher to have a better chance at winning on even terms, but as that base pr increases so does their income. it`s not as if their base pr is raising and their income isn`t. Besides that, a guard with a base of 700k and one with roughly double that usually need to get to around the same pr so that their base pr isn`t a factor in a fight. However the bonus to credits is more than doubled because of that increase as well. (not saying actual income is increased)...meaning, they`re still trying to get to roughly the same pr, but still making more credits. but Guards more than any other race are also made to reach pr`s where their base pr isn`t a major factor in their fighting ability due to the huge build rates of their ships.
again, just playing devils advocate and would like to see Maraudian give us some numbers to go on. |
LtCommander
99+ day(s) ago | Some nice points have been raised.
Regarding EE`s post... Virals and miners have to take that option of a high pr base into account when going a tax empire. High pr playing guards don`t have the same option with tax being the only option. Agriculture is a low pr option only.
I agree with your view on the updated ships however they can still be pwned with high range.
I can understand how some Virals would hate the idea of Guards dominating the higher pr heaven forbid they lose some power up in the ranks.
A quote from the manual...
"Guardians have made a solemn oath to protect the galaxy, and to ensure peace realms. "
This great idea of Maraudian`s would be great if balanced right. |
CounterCrazy
99+ day(s) ago | I agree, upping the cost for minerials would hurt guards, but it wouldnt hurt them upkeep wise while fighting or staying at a higher power, it would only hurt them while building ships.
Nice idea Maraudian |
Omegian
99+ day(s) ago | Im a guard on Ultra, even with my 60 planets and can still explore i can sit at 40 mil pr now ... just think how evil i could be at 90 mil :P |
Reborn
99+ day(s) ago | Look at my stats, half my losses are because I didn`t build a fleet or I was a different race... 85% of my wins were with A.Miner. They have some of the best ships in the game, because I`m definitely not one of the best players in the game yet I own with them. |
Runnerman
99+ day(s) ago | reborn: it is painfully obvious that if you wanna be rich and sell minerals your empire stats will take a hit(mine anyway) there needs to be something that would draw ppl to WANT to be a mineral miner besides cash |
Reborn
99+ day(s) ago | runnerman, because A.Miner being the wealthiest race in the game isn`t enough? |
Runnerman
99+ day(s) ago | .....off topic sorta... if the costs get raised thats just gunna put a higher strain on what little minerals are on the market, personally id like to see aminer get something appealing, then maybe id go back to miner miner. |
Islander
Game-Admin
99+ day(s) ago | Bad change..nogoimo |
