Jellion
2007-06-21 |  | Food prices, good or bad? |  |
In gc/rt we can all see the food market, food prices are going lower then 3 cred per unit. So it`s excellent for tax miners and tax virals at the moment, but what is going to happen in the long run? The regular food producers will just stop using turns, stop posting food and start making money instead off of raw material, bringing that market up (bad thing for Industrial miners) Other food producers like collectives, (like me :D) will go back to attacking huge numbers of empires to pay for ship upkeep, planet upkeep, and to pay for the research of more ships and infra. Others`ll just stop producing altogether. I know all of this sounds hypothetical and a majority of it really is. But what is the point taking the risk of letting all of this loose on the server? Besides isn`t the food market down enough at 6 or 8 cred per unit? I`m not asking for much, just a little more credits so that I can stop hunting empires that are fresh outta dp or empires that are trying to complete a mission and start paying for my empires costs with food production. |
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DarkRuby
99+ day(s) ago | good..... |
DeiKobol
99+ day(s) ago | Personally, I can`t stand Virals, so I`m not opposed entirely to the stagnation of their numbers, but still, 3 and 4 creds per food is just pathetic... |
StormofBladeZ
99+ day(s) ago | hey Bladactania it would lessen the amount of virals dramatically if they start to lose money untill they cant spam anymore (on the positive side) maru ships are too cheap anyways so not that great of an effect on them. |
Jellion
99+ day(s) ago | Razgriz I`m a low power collective, the only other way for me and other collectives of this pr is to sell food on the market, otherwise I have to pretty much take down any empire I see that has the courage to come outta pr. I prefer to fight more defended empire but this food has to get at least to 7 cred a unit. If it gets to 7 a unit I`m not complaining in the least bit, I dont` really want it to get super high like 13 or 15 a unit but i`m starting to lose millions now just reasearching ag infrastructure. |
Razgriz
99+ day(s) ago | You used up 1 turn(s) Credit -18,029 Food +173,829 Goods -9,029
this is wat i make at base pr, 3 c3`s and lvl 65 agri of course it isnt alot but i make enough, even at 1 i make money, thje only problem is when i climb or have to explore, would i like the food at a higher price hell ya, but not needed really |
Anfit
99+ day(s) ago | Let`s just add that it was obvious ultra food market would crash. Dei was THE food buyer, he balanced the market. Without him you either reset or die, you farmers. That or find someone else to buy your food... |
Bladactania
99+ day(s) ago | Here is the formula for calculating Tax Income :
((Pop / 2) + (Pop * Loyalty / 5000)) * RM -RM is Race Modifier
For this discussion we are assuming max loyalty (5000) so the simplified formula is :
((Pop / 2) + Pop * 5000 / 5000)) * RM
((Pop / 2) + Pop) * RM
((Pop / 2) + (2 * Pop / 2) * RM
((Pop + 2 * Pop) / 2) * RM
((3 * Pop) / 2) * RM
(3 / 2) * Pop * RM
1.5 * Pop * RM
Hope you remember your Algebra :)
For A. Miners, the RM is 2.5 (100% + 150% = 250% = 2.5)
So for A. Miners, for every 1000 people...
1.5 * 1000 * 2.5 = $3750 per turn income.
Now 1000 people requires 100 Food per turn, so A. Miners start to lose money if food goes over $37.50 per unit.
For Virals, the RM is only 1.2 (100% + 20% = 120% = 1.2)
So for Virals, for every 1000 people...
1.5 * 1000 * 1.2 = $1800 per turn income.
So Virals start to lose money if food goes over $18.00 per unit.
So if Food is now at $5 per unit, you would have to more than triple the cost to cripple the Virals and almost eight times the cost to cripple A. Miners. And that`s a sustained price! Most Tax empires have a lot of money saved up that would surely help them weather any short term increase in food cost. It would be impossible to get the entire server to work together to increase the food price long enough to hurt any of these tax based empires.
**Please note that I did not take into account income from selling Goods to you population, or income from secondary sources like selling minerals etc. Also, The fact that Virals start to lose money at $18 per unit, even at $12 or so, they wouldn`t be able to make enough money to sustain a fleet for extended periods. |
Bladactania
99+ day(s) ago | Interesting... well not really, sorry...
Look, Increasing the price of food will reduce the income of any tax based empire (A. Miners, Virals, and the occasional Tax Terran. Guardians don`t need food, so this doesn`t affect them). The only one of these that anyone should really be concerned about are the Virals. Miners make so much money that if you took 75% of it away, they`d still make more than they could spend, not to mention that if you gave A. Miners unlimited cash, they`d still get massacred 90% of the time, and Tax Terrans are too few to be concerned about. And why would I want to take money away from the Tax Virals and give it to the Agri Collectives? Personally, I find both difficult to win against when my opponent has some semblance of stacking skill, which is all too uncommon nowadays.
Now that I`ve got that off my chest, let`s get to the mathematics of the situation. First of all, the infrastructure research means nothing to the profit margin of a Tax empire. The higher the research level, the more people, the more people, the more food you need.so as your pop goes up, the cost to feed them goes up too. The only way to increase your profit margin as a Tax empire is to increase loyalty, which unfortunately for them, has a maximum. So once the loyalty is at max, your profit margin is now solely in the hands of the cost of food on the market.
So, now we`re left with food cost as the only thing that can effect the profit margin of Tax empires. (Let me note here that I use the term "profit margin" which refers to the percent of your income that is profit, not the gross or net income. Researching infrastructure WILL put more cash into your coffers, but the percent of your income that is profit remains the same no matter what your research level).
(CONTINUED) |
ThePakistaniEmpire
99+ day(s) ago | i do wanna mention some greedy collectives put prices incredably high if they have 1million they will make 10 post of 100k |
ThePakistaniEmpire
99+ day(s) ago | and i do want the food prices at that point i am a taxer |
ThePakistaniEmpire
99+ day(s) ago | even in 12 if ur loyalty is high like min 200 u can survive so dont worry just that i think that the server should get more cgs |
DeiKobol
99+ day(s) ago | Honestly, I would be willing to help if you wanted to do that again Storm. I make enough to pitch in, because even as a commercial terran, I can`t stand to see the prices THIS low... |
StormofBladeZ
99+ day(s) ago | hey on ultra it IS 3$ -
Hey Jellion. Im never gonna bring those food prices back up again man. ask the rest of the server but i wont help unless anyone else is and Noone else is. Except for evane that time
we bought out the entire market to blackmarket 200 reg 100 apparently he posted all at 15 and them Drop zoom down those pices went back to 5$ in 5 hours. |
Jellion
99+ day(s) ago | No tax miner or viral`ll ever lose money at 12 a unit unless they have one planet with like 600 pop and their loyalty is at 15. And anyway ag terrans have it easy, collectives have it a lot harder, most of our money is either from plundering every chance we get or from food, why do you think so few of us have artis used on us? Other empires feel sorry for us :D
plus this really isn`t teh point is it? I`m just saying why can`t we stop trying to keep the prices below 5 and start raising them higher? If it hurts a few tax miners then they just need to work up ther infra because it`s hurting a lot more collectives then miners. |
Tiffany
99+ day(s) ago | last time i was tax miner i lost money when food was above 40$ or something. and that was ultra, housing level around 50, not more... i guess it`s worse for virals, but come on, it can`t be that low, count again... :P |
Ishamael
99+ day(s) ago | i thought they lost money at like 12 a unit or something like that.. |
WarpSpeed
99+ day(s) ago | tax virals lose money at 6 per unit. So low is better for them. Tax is to iffy I recommend commercial |
Ishamael
99+ day(s) ago | thank you magnus. i didn`t feel like taking the time of day :P |
Magnus
99+ day(s) ago | no one makes money off of raw materials, as they are only used by the few cg producing miners that are out there. the regular producers arent gonna stop using turns unless they quit, no one who plays doesn`t use turns (that sounded confusing). collectives are gonna have a hard time unless they are already big food producers because there are so few empires to attack, and it takes a lot of money to go high in pr and there is little money to be made up there by plundering. yeah eventually the big food producers will stop making food cause they restart or quit. this is just supply and demand. eventually the demand will catch up with the supply and the tax empires will be xed for a while |
CaptainWhoopAsh
99+ day(s) ago | `and start making money instead off of raw material`
Is that what you think? lol
I restarted from agri emprie. But as agri terran, if foods at 5 or 6 its fine. At 3 and 4 each, it aint pretty. |
