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Renegade
2020-06-12
  Ship Changes  

Just the start of ship changes, a small update aimed at knocking down some of the ships are that insanely better than every other ship and improving a few lesser used ships.

These are not live yet - Should go live about 8PM 6/12 Server Time.

Tourmaline
Hull dropped to 5,000 from 15,000.
Energy Shield increased from -50% to -10%.
Kinetic Shield dropped from +40% to +30%.
Missile Shield increased from -50% to -20%.
Chemical Shield increased from +40% to +55%.

K. Hun-Xe revamped to serve an actual purpose -
PR: 8,749
Range: 8
Weapons: Energy 0 Kinetic 0 Missile 3500 Chemical 2000
Hull: 9000
Shields: Energy -10% Kinetic -10% Missile -20% Chemical +60%
No Retal
No Defense

K Hun Li - Changed to improve usefulness without ridiculous 99% shields.
PR: 87,273
Range: 6
Weapons: Energy 0 Kinetic 12000 Missile 0 Chemical 24000
Hull: 95000
Shields: Energy +80% Kinetic +80% Missile 0 Chemical +40%

H. Corsair
Chemical Weapon dropped from 50 to 40.
Hull improved from 135 to 165.
Shields: Energy -15% Kinetic -15% Missile 0 Chemical 45%
No Retal

H. Brigantine
Missile Damage dropped from 100 to 60.
Chemical Damage dropped from 200 to 120.
Hull increased from 300 to 340.
Shields: Energy 10% Kinetic -10% Missile +40% Chemical -25%
No Defense removed

R. Snow
Energy Damage dropped to 1500.
Missile Damage dropped to 2000.
Hull increased to 8000.
Kinetic Shield increased to +50%.
Missile Shield increased to +25%.
Chemical Shield decreased to -20%.

Hercules Also aimed at decreasing insane shield mods
Kinetic Weapon improved to 14000.
Missile weapon decreased to 7000.
Hull increased to 50000.
Shields: Energy: 0 Kinetic +75% Missile +65% Chemical -30%

Garuda
Energy Damage increased to 600.
Hull decreased to 925.
Shields: Energy -10% Kinetic +30% Missile -10% Chemical -10%
No Retal
No Defense

Edited by Renegade on 2020-06-12
DrKsTGuardian
47day(s) ago
#GuardLivesMatter
wookiejedimaster
47day(s) ago
I meant the nerfed tourm can still win when matched up against fodder.
aacra
47day(s) ago
fodder are awesome when you hit on careful :)
aacra
47day(s) ago
at what???
wookiejedimaster
47day(s) ago
at least it still beats fodder
aacra
47day(s) ago
Im not a happy with the tourm nerf. I feel the ship is now inconsistent with guardian play/tactics. :(
wookiejedimaster
51day(s) ago
Also unless Xe proves to be an especially formidable ship I think it`s BR should be increased as well
wookiejedimaster
51day(s) ago
I haven`t been paying much attention to the forum or my fleets lately. But now I understand why I kept having to rebuild so many tourms in between battles. I`m ok with the changes. It`s not the first time I`ve had to reconsider everything. I do believe that tourm should definitely get more range, up the build rate or lower the pr...Also DrKsTGuardian has some valid points. I`ve been in a similar situation so I can relate. I would have VM`d also.
CaptainJackSparrow
59day(s) ago
In my opinion I really don`t think Ren`s intention is to make all ships generic, I mean in his very first sentence of the post, he explicitly states that this is essentially a "small update aimed at knocking down some of the ships are that insanely better than every other ship and improving a few lesser used ships"

Nobody can possibly argue that tourm was balanced, and while I`m on the fence about shield changes, I do honestly believe that invulnerability is a little too much. I agree guards should be unique, their ships should be generally stronger (but not to the point of unfairness), and they should indeed have their unique trait of having really high shields. But balance is important as well (besides, guards aren`t the only race having their ships tuned), and all these I feel are a step in the right direction.

I think the feedback that we should give now should be feedback on the ground, after using these ships, and not just negativity bred from an adversity to change, without even having tried the new ships.

Having fought a few battles with guards since the update, I can say for sure that the new hun-xe is a legit threat that gives guardians a whole new set of teeth, and hun-li is still as unkillable as ever against anything that isn`t predominantly missile.

Anyways, so yea, maybe before we bombard the forum with our well meaning advise and such, it would be good for us to actually play the game first, try out the new ships, then give informed feedback. Your opinions may change once you actually try out the new ships in actual battles, and not just look at them on paper.
StrikeFreedom
59day(s) ago
Agreed with DrKsTGuardian. Every races is unique and should retain their uniqueness in order for the game to be dynamic. Imagine all chess pieces having similar ability, which will make the game boring. GC is like a chess game, each race having unique ships, and different stacking give vastly different outcome. Let`s not make GC like F1 where all cars stick to same set of spec and are too similar to each other.
Redline
59day(s) ago
G.Livid(r) still shows total weapon at "5000" but kinetic at "7500." the sum should not be less than the parts. Thanks for the cool changes, btw. I like having to adjust my stacking method. Please keep the improvements coming!
KnightOfBaa
60day(s) ago
So your crying cause gaurd got a nerf and are now unplayable for your style so your going to vm instead of sticking around and showing they arnt viable anymore?
JohnnyRico
60day(s) ago
A very well and amazing post and I agree 100percent with what you said.
DrKsTGuardian
60day(s) ago
All in all I think better adjustments could have been made to the race to suit the needs of this newer player base in this new generation of GCC. I encourage the staff to look at my battle logs and examine my past battles as most of mine are all high pr and look at the ships I`m using and how I`m using them and the sheer amount of success I have using my strategy which doesn`t include spamming. Some guards can spam up quartz,Li,top,zen and that`s fine but it has no sustainability and is easily countered by any race so speaking as a guard with alot of planets and alot of land at stake I do not feel comfortable playing the race as is anymore according to my play style that I have adopted which isnt for everyone. I`m a little disappointed in the changes also as it`s not inline with the purpose of why guard even has K.class its reverse engineered tech from the Kalzul how many slow moving range 8 K.class ships do you see on their ship list? I think the trigger got pulled to early and there is too much emphasis on all races being equal here. They aren`t supposed to be equal lol each one has its strengths and weaknesses according to your play style. A Minor is supposed to be a high income defensive based race with the best star bases in the game, why buff Lyth?? How many coll you see in the upper pr? Why are we nerfing there ships? Make them more viable for higher pr. Why mess with Herc unless it`s to balance what was done to the tourm? We cant just go around changing ships every year because this year we have more A Minors playing crying about K.class shields this year. Why not nerf Maru since Tranq owned the server and sat on everyone`s face and their wasn`t much anyone could do about it? Races cant be equal in GC your taking away the individuality of them in exchange for a few wins on the battle field. It`s my fondest hope that true balance will be found and until then I shall join my brethren in deep sleep.
DrKsTGuardian
60day(s) ago
Now in regards to the K.class I have looked over the new stats and here is what I have to say on the matter.

K.Hun Li and XE in reality are only fast moving fodder that returns very little damage. That`s its purpose they aren`t offensive machines they are designed to give guard a shot at getting off the ground quickly with a good shot at surviving in the meantime. So let`s not act like oh my god the K.class is so overwhelming and powerfull because if a guard caps you for 3 with K.class your not playing the game right.

K.Hun Li update just made it weaker I have mixed feelings on the matter but in my opinion and experience it`s not completely crippled but considering both tourm and Li being guards two best ships the race overall took a huge hit and I say this from experience fighting over the years every race ,style of play,and skill level from every pr level as well I know how much Li can take and dish and in my opinion you should have left it alone as it was. The weapons were never the strong suite of the ship and increasing them is of little value as I have just explained the ships actuall purpose.

XE is useless at lower pr levels but at higher pr I`ll let you in on a little secret. At 4.5 mill pr per 45 turns XE was a priceless asset in rebuilding a fast stack in the higher pr especially when I ten stack XE is my go to substitute when I`m seriously at war. The fact that it has no ship ability plays a huge factor in helping to assure that you can get dp on a hit. When stacking on defense you want to win but get dp at the same time so you dont get wiped on the next hit, XE plays a major roll in accomplishing that. Pro players design stacks to suit specific purposes. The change to XE will benefit lower pr guards but to be honest as a guard who can play 500 mill pr weekly if I had the time it`s been reduced to a flanker and a filler that`s way to slow now so I`ve lost a huge asset.
DrKsTGuardian
60day(s) ago
I have been giving this some thought and didnt want to formally post anything until I had a level head about this guard nerfing ordeal.

Guard is very near and dear to my heart for many reasons mainly in fact due to it`s the only race I have played since the old G.Condom days. So I will try to give constructive input where I can.

First of all a big thank you to those who have had a hand in trying to better this game especially with the new server and version of GC. I`m not a fan of the recent changes made to guard and will try to give my reasons why on each of those changes based on my experience playing as a guard. I would hope as I have always given respect albeit playfully at times to my enemies that they would agree I`m at least decent and somewhat accomplished at playing the race so when I take the time to speak on such things I would hope my words would carry some weight and not fall on deaf ears.

Tourmaline nerf was needed but you dont see high pr guards spamming tourms and rubies it`s the lower empires playing 10 mill or and under. At 1.6 mill per 45 turns for low pr guards it`s an ok br but for high pr guards such as myself I cant afford to get caught spamming like that which is why in recent years I have "never" two stacked pure kinetic because to me its stepping over a dollar to pick up a dime it`s just going to cost you in the long run. Tourm needed its damage nerfed not its survivability and I`m telling you from exp it`s a glass cannon now and only good as a low lvl flanker and as it was guard only had two good offensive ships with good weapons to pr ratio and that was tourms and rubies. It was too aggressive to the point If I didnt know any better I would question the motives as to why it was gutted. The changes to the shield mods are of little consequence in comparison. For guards like myself with a high base or that I busted my arse for 1.6 mill pr at 45 turns is only filler until I`m past 100 mill pr minimum regardless of how good the ship w
EnderWiggin
60day(s) ago
Also, this will probably be my last post in this thread, because I don`t want to be too big a poopy pants. Whatever opinions I have about ships/races/guards the opinion I have that matters most is the first one that I posted on here, that these changes make me happy. I think they will make the game a more enjoyable one to play, and they make me excited to try out all the new numbers. ♥
EnderWiggin
60day(s) ago
Sibirian, I`ve seen people bring up turn based guard as a justification for strength and buildrate for years. That`s why I went Guard on Ultra and Fast a couple years ago. I am not a good guard stacker, far from it. I`m sure I couldn`t hold a candle to Darkst or others. But I also have been popped up, non-explorable, able to make income at 25mil pr and had no issues. Yes, the first 2-3 months were slow, because it was TB, and 10 colonies makes it harder to hoard for sure, but the ships and ridiculous build rates have more than mitigated that in my experience.
Renegade
Game-Admin
60day(s) ago
Sorry, the BR for the Xe is 4, so it builds nearly 36k pr per turn, or roughly as fast as Tourm. Part of the Xe update was to turn a ship that was pretty much never used before into one of the better flankers in the game, a solid tradeoff for losing tourm as a `just kill anything no matter what` ship.

We have some adjustments in mind to reduce tax base PR in the near-ish future which should help guards especially as well.
Tranq
60day(s) ago
A lot of the issues being brought up auch as build rates, base pr issues, income disparity are likely to be addressed at a later date. This was mostly intended as a quicker fix to deal with ships that are currently issues and also add some playability in a few cases.

A couple things that will likely remain in place for guard are notably higher shield mods and higher build rates. That said, avg realized hulls of +10-99x power rating, And build rates in the realm of 2-3x that of other races in many cases are likely to shrink to more realistic windows.

It’s important to note that this is not intended to just kill off guards out of spite. It IS intended to make the game a bit more playable for everyone. And as ren mentioned, nothing is final.

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