A.Miner Starbase Discussion

yeah id definitely say raise the chem shields to like a -65% and maybe cut the missle damage down to 20,000? i dunno im terrible at balancing ships :P

what will happen to this massive stack of lakko I have if they get changed?

:)

Lakko:
I apologize for my earlier post... I was checking the forums before class and didn`t have time to even read the whole bit... the pieces I did see were the 3 range and the -60 kinetic and -95 chem shields.

On second thought I think that this would definitely give a little more versatility to the a. miner fleet. I think that perhaps the shields should be moderated a little ( even to -50 kinetic, and -85 or -90 chem). If the price would be for the ship to lose a little bit of firepower so be it.

A. Hoko: That sounds reasonable...
Lyth: ditto
Livid: ditto
Chlor: ditto

Epidote: Instead of a buildrate increase add no retal? perhaps would be too much, I dunno

Epidote:

hahahahaha, got a laugh from your sarcasm in the battle calc post SD, good times. I`m going to bed.

The -ve chem shields are terrifying, please drop it a little, I`m not sure any other miner ship has any kind of shield that bad *checks* nope, in fact, the only other ship with a shield worse than -45 is the Kyro, and here you`re giving the new Lakko two shields that bad. Oh, and no, I don`t consider strafez, with their weaknesses as a-miner

Anyway, looks fine to me for the most part. I`d use the new design, though possibly not in the top spot :P Or at least not after the first attack :P:P:P:P

to some(not poof) extent. Phone dictionaries...sigh

Ok to elaborate. I don`t have the time or the interest to spend on just sim-ing the new ship. To me, it`s a comparison between new and old lakko, what i use it for. It doesn`t fit the uses i would want it to. Furthermore, miners are already pretty weak towards straf flanking with the exception of livid and arag(to poof extent). That`s why imho, new lakko is very unminer. It`s besides the point of whether it`s good in its new role. I just don`t like the fact that it`s so different from what it used to be. A high damage flanker definitely sounds good since miners need more output, but imo, the need is more on the offense than on the defense. Even then, i still think it`s brittle.

Thanks ShatterdDreams i see it does good in battle vs some of the captial ships A.miner generally have problems with. M.Lakko gots my approval the way its listed.

honestly people if your just going to post something based on appearances, or if your going to nay say don`t bother posting, try it out for yourselves or at the very very least ask for proof. i figured most of you would be at least courteous enough to mess with it or again, at least ask for it`s performance records.

honestly why should the staff even bother to ask you your opinions if your not even going to post an informed opinion. maybe from now on we should just update stuff at a whim, and let you guys figure it out on your on? it would be faster that way

i`m going to go ahead an apologize for this post even though at this current time, i see no reason why i should.

most guard ships can`t beat the new redesign, the reason the range is so low is so guards will have a better chance at beating it. the ship does fine vs anything that builds around the same br as it.

All test will be at equal pr unless other wise stated.

Aragonite vs Lakko Concept.

Careful 44.3% damage to arago, 34.8% damage to Lakko Out come, defender wins
Normal 61.7 % damage to arago, 61.1 % damage to lakko Out come, defender wins
Aggressive 37% damage to arago, 100% damage to Lakko out come, attacker wins

Flysch vs Lakko concept.

Careful 66.3 % damage to Flysch, 17.5% damage to Lakko Out come, defender wins
Normal 100 % damage to Flysch, 27.8% damage to Lakko Out come, defender wins
Aggressive 100 % damage to Flysch, 38.4% damage to Lakko out come, defender wins

Lictor vs Lakko concept.

Careful 25.7 % damage to Lictor, 15% damage to Lakko Out come, defender wins
Normal 45.9% damage to Lictor, 26.9% damage to Lakko Out come, defender wins
Aggressive 73.6% damage to Lictor, 44.7% damage to Lakko out come, defender wins

Lyth vs Lakko concept.

Careful 39.3% damage to Lyth, 17.9% damage to Lakko Out come, defender wins
Normal 68.6% damage to Lyth, 30.9% damage to Lakko Out come, defender wins
Aggressive 100% damage to Lyth, 49.2% damage to Lakko out come, defender wins

Livid (r) vs Lakko concept.

Careful 29.7% damage to Livid (r), 39% damage to Lakko Out come, Attacker wins
Normal 37.8% damage to Livid (r), 70.7% damage to Lakko Out come, Attacker wins
Aggressive 21.6% damage to Livid (r), 100% damage to Lakko out come, Attacker wins


Sapphire vs Lakko concept.

Careful 38.8% damage to Sapphire, 57.3% damage to Lakko Out come, Attacker wins
Normal 27% damage to Sapphire, 100% damage to Lakko Out come, Attacker wins
Aggressive 0% damage to Sapphire, 100% damage to Lakko out come, Attacker wins


Hercules vs Lakko concept.

Careful 33.7% damage to Hercules, 32% damage to Lakko Out come, defender wins
Normal 49 % damage to Hercules, 57% damage to Lakko Out come, Attacker wins
Aggressive 34.2% damage to Hercules, 100% damage to Lakko out come, Attacker wins

Nirvana vs Lakko concept.

Careful 40.1% damage to Nirvana, 40% damage to Lakko Out come, defender wins
Normal 50% damage to Nirvana, 71.4% damage to Lakko Out come, Attacker wins
Aggressive 24.5 damage to Nirvana, 100% damage to Lakko out come, Attacker wins

Tyr vs Lakko concept.

Careful 56.9% damage to Tyr, 28.1% damage to Lakko. Out come, defender wins
Normal 88.8% damage to Tyr, 47.3% damage to Lakko. Out come, Defender wins
Aggressive 89.1% damage to Tyr, 80.8% damage to Lakko. out come, Defender wins

Empereur vs Lakko concept.

Careful 45.9% damage to Empereur , 24.8% damage to Lakko. Out come, defender wins
Normal 74.3% damage to Empereur , 42.6% damage to Lakko. Out come, Defender wins
Aggressive 90.3% damage to Empereur, 70.8% damage to Lakko. out come, Defender wins


Angel vs Lakko concept.

Careful 43.1% damage to Angel, 50.6% damage to Lakko. Out come, Attacker wins
Normal 37.5% damage to Angel, 92.5% damage to Lakko. Out come, Attacker wins
Aggressive 0% damage to Angel, 100% damage to Lakko. out come, Attacker wins


Pyth vs Lakko concept.

Careful 100% damage to Pyth , 39.1% damage to Lakko. Out come, defender wins
Normal 100% damage to Pyth , 54.8% damage to Lakko. Out come, Defender wins
Aggressive 100% damage to Pyth, 100% damage to Lakko. out come, Defender wins

Bullhead vs Lakko concept.

Careful 43.7% damage to Bullhead , 18.1% damage to Lakko. Out come, defender wins
Normal 76.2% damage to Bullhead , 30.9% damage to Lakko. Out come, Defender wins
Aggressive 100% damage to Bullhead, 48.4% damage to Lakko. out come, Defender wins

Hammerhead vs Lakko concept.

Careful 38.9 % damage to Hammerhead , 63% damage to Lakko. Out come, Attacker wins
Normal 24.4% damage to Hammerhead, 100% damage to Lakko. Out come, Attacker wins
Aggressive 0% damage to Hammerhead, 100 % damage to Lakko. out come, Attacker wins

Thresher vs Lakko concept.

Careful 100 % damage to Thresher , 25.1% damage to Lakko. Out come, Defender wins
Normal 100% damage to Thresher, 35.5% damage to Lakko. Out come, defender wins
Aggressive 100 % damage to Thresher, 62.4 % damage to Lakko. out come, defender wins
Agate vs Lakko concept.

Careful 29.5 % damage to Agate , 37.2% damage to Lakko. Out come, Attacker wins
Normal 39% damage to Agate, 67.3% damage to Lakko. Out come, Attacker wins
Aggressive 23.9% damage to Agate, 100 % damage to Lakko. out come, Attacker wins

Amethyst vs Lakko concept.

Careful 77.6% damage to Amethyst , 35.8% damage to Lakko. Out come, Defender wins
Normal 100% damage to Amethyst, 55.5% damage to Lakko. Out come, defender wins
Aggressive 100 % damage to Amethyst, 84.6 % damage to Lakko. out come, defender wins

Corundum vs Lakko concept.

Careful 100 % damage to Corundum , 24.7% damage to Lakko. Out come, Defender wins
Normal 100% damage to Corundum , 33.6% damage to Lakko. Out come, Defender wins
Aggressive 100% damage to Corundum , 61.9% damage to Lakko. out come, Defender wins

Quartz vs Lakko concept.

Careful 41.2 % damage to Quartz , 36.6% damage to Lakko. Out come, Defender wins
Normal 63.1% damage to Quartz, 63.2% damage to Lakko. Out come, Attacker wins
Aggressive 64.6% damage to Quartz, 100 % damage to Lakko. out come, Attacker wins


Fluorite vs Lakko concept.

Careful 46.8% damage to Fluorite, 12.4% damage to Lakko. Out come, Defender wins
Normal 91.6% damage to Fluorite, 14.7% damage to Lakko. Out come, Defender wins
Aggressive 100% damage to Fluorite, 10.7% damage to Lakko. out come, Defender wins


Hun-Li vs Lakko concept.

Careful 62.4% damage to Hun-Li , 28% damage to Lakko. Out come, Defender wins
Normal 100 % damage to Hun-Li , 44.9% damage to Lakko. Out come, Defender wins
Aggressive 100% damage to Hun-Li , 63.9% damage to Lakko. out come, Defender wins


Hun-Xe vs Lakko concept.

Careful 62.1% damage to Hun-Xe, 14.2% damage to Lakko. Out come, Defender wins
Normal 100 % damage to Hun-Xe, 22.5% damage to Lakko. Out come, Defender wins
Aggressive 100% damage to Hun-Xe, 29.4% damage to Lakko. out come, Defender wins

Hun-Zen vs Lakko concept.

Careful 65.8% damage to Hun-Zen, 21.6% damage to Lakko. Out come, Defender wins
Normal 100 % damage to Hun-Zen, 33.9% damage to Lakko. Out come, Defender wins
Aggressive 100% damage to Hun-Zen, 45.8% damage to Lakko. out come, Defender wins


Emerald vs Lakko concept.

Careful 100% damage to Emerald , 19.8% damage to Lakko. Out come, Defender wins
Normal 100 % damage to Emerald , 27.3% damage to Lakko. Out come, Defender wins
Aggressive 100% damage to Emerald , 50.4% damage to Lakko. out come, Defender wins


Garnet vs Lakko concept.

Careful 56.9% damage to Garnet, 16.7% damage to Lakko. Out come, Defender wins
Normal 100 % damage to Garnet, 27.3% damage to Lakko. Out come, Defender wins
Aggressive 100% damage to Garnet, 39.2% damage to Lakko. out come, Defender wins

Topaz vs Lakko concept.

Careful 16.3% damage to Topaz, 12.4% % damage to Lakko. Out come, Defender wins
Normal 29.7 % damage to Topaz, 22.8 % damage to Lakko. Out come, Defender wins
Aggressive 49.4% damage to Topaz, 39.3% damage to Lakko. out come, Defender wins


Ruby vs Lakko concept.

Careful 18.3% damage to Ruby, 100% damage to Lakko. Out come, Attacker wins
Normal 0 % damage to Ruby, 100% damage to Lakko. Out come, Attacker wins
Aggressive 0% damage to Ruby, 100% damage to Lakko. out come, Attacker wins

Tourmaline vs Lakko concept.

Careful 10.4% damage to Tourmaline, 100% damage to Lakko. Out come, Attacker wins
Normal 0 % damage to Tourmaline, 100% damage to Lakko. Out come, Attacker wins
Aggressive 0% damage to Tourmaline, 100% damage to Lakko. out come, Attacker wins


wins 28 battles 84 it lost 33.% of these battles which means it won 66% of the time....

now just against guards 13 ships of which only 4 could beat it avg though 11 wins in 39 battles
so guards beat it 28% of the time..

yes indeed this ship blows worse than the current lakko, and the range matters oh so much because it can`t possibly do anything with such a low range. i would much rather have old old lakko with 15 range and .02 weapons to pr ratio than this new current lakko, why oh why god do the staff keep giving us lame choices. now just imagine what it can do as a flanker in a stack, or what it can do as a hoko lakko spam?

and people stop pls stop thinking of what a miner ship should look like...no race has a definative design, what matters most is the balance of the ships and if it balance with it`s race and other ships.

Edited by ShatterdDreams on 2010-08-26

@seventeen the build rate of the terran scorpions doesnt matter,with a 1/10 weapon/pr ratio they arnt good for much except for running and hoping your enemy dont attack your worthless bases. Yes they do build pr fast, but that pr doesnt serve much of a purpose except for being bad fodder.

As a useful ship, probably still the current lakko with increased upkeep and decreased build. It`s still a good ship.
I can`t say anything good about the new suggested ship. With -40% kinetic and (you`re joking right?) -95% straf, it`s not even good as a spam stack.

The kryo still deserves (much) better in life. If you decrease the other SB utility (lets be honest, the current build rate is overpowered for good range 11 ship!). Building kryos = giving away free wins.


Sure increase the upkeep on hoko. Still a decent ship for quick pr ... also still relatively cheap for UW.

agreed with chlor build rate. Finally. It`s better than pretty much all destroyers, and has a higher build rate at the moment.

agreed about epidote

agreed that lyth + livid too expensive

Seventeen actually manowars have a pretty terrible buildrate (18k) and have a pretty crabpy upkeep (1:2 upkeep/pr ratio, crabpy for a collective ship at least) as well. Their stats are above average as far as starbases go and they can capture, but I don`t ever use them to do anything other than to climb over the low pr rabble :P.

I actually wanna see a new M.Lakko, the only reason why is i want to see a starbase that can actually stand up to a captial ship spam & i dont care if it builds slow. I like seeing the ECM shiled and Hull of this starbase. But the modifiers arent really A.miner like nor the range.

Either fix the modifers or fix the range.

Also if you increase the hull 1k on the Hoko i`ll love you.

yay yet another ship that guards well destroy like paper...

to me the new Lakko is very un-A.Miner.... way too negative on the shields, 1:1 weapon-PR ratio which is high for Miners... and the range looks silly to be honest...

if I had to choose I would definitly take the old lakko with increased upkeep and BR of 4 (even with 3 I would prefer it to the redesigned Lakko)

1st impressions of the new lakko are pretty good although after the quick testing ive done an increase in range to 5 might be fair without making it overly strong. Id also consider changing the defensive ratios slightly either by slightly dropping ih or increasing es/ecm a bit.

The only slight concern i have apart from that is it looks like most guard ships will tear it apart completely regardless of stance but i only did a few tests with guard so that needs confirmation. Its certainly a good start either way and a good idea for an alternate type of sb

Um... i don`t know if this is a not-smart point... but why are we taking away the good starbases for miners....who are supposed to be the best defensive race...? terrans have bases that build as fast now and guards that build a lot faster. i dont know about col and viral and i`m not going to look it up but im sure they can`t be much worse than 33k per turn... leave the miner bases alone they dont attack anybody anyway. miners need good defence.

nice weapons. balanced by bad shields.
but the range?
really. the miners dont need something that brittle imho