A.Miner Starbase Discussion

OP 22/08/2010 · 05:52 AM #1

Ok people it`s time to vote on these idea`s if you would pls submit all your votes to the empire PollMeister on RT. this will decide which or all of these shall go through. just copy paste the format below with your choices

1) Lakko Version one, with BR of either 4 or 3.
Lakko version two
or Lakko the Redesigned Concept.

2) kyro upkeep reduction (y/n)

3) Livid upkeep reduction (y/n)

4) lyth upkeep reduction (y/n)

5 Chlor build rate reduction and Epidote build rate increase (y/n)

in a format similar to this pls
1) lakko version two
2)Yes
3)No
4)No
5)No

*note the changes to hoko will go through, and Chlor and epidote is a package deal, you can`t get either or.

also only one vote per person, not account, if we find you voted with multiple accounts all your votes will be discounted for wasting our time. Also for those of you that have taken the Lakko as part of a UW Reward, you will have the option to choose another ship.
------------------

These are the current changes proposed by the staff, please discuss them in a constructive manner, feel free to also pm feed back directly to us.

Lakko version one

upkeep is increased from 2,352 to 7,195

Build rate, dropped from 5 to 4 or 3
which means instead of 55,350 pr a turn it`s now 44,280 or 33,210 pr a turn

or

M.Lakko redesign concept
Energy Damage 11,500
Missile Damage 24,000
Hull 55,000
Range 3
Scanner rating 623
Power rating 36,666
1 turn produces 1
Ship upkeep 32,999

Ship Specials
No retaliation
Ships attacked by this ship cannot return fire.

Energy Shield +40%
Absorption Shield -60%
ECM +40%
Ionized Hull -95%

Or..

M.Lakko Ver. 2
4,000 Total Damage
1,500 Energy Damage
1,500 Kinetic Damage
1,000 Missile Damage
Hull 15,000
Scanner 900
Range 8
Power Rating 11,061
1 turn produces 5
Ship upkeep 6,032

Ship Specials
No defense
This ship can`t return fire if attacked.

Energy Shield +30%
Absorption Shield +30% Was +15%
ECM -40% Was -30%
Ionized Hull +40%

Hoko

upkeep increased from 1,450 to 4,475

build rate dropped from 6 to 5
which means instead of 59,670 pr a turn it`s now 49,725 pr a turn

Kyro

upkeep reduced from 45,000 to 32,328

Lyth

upkeep reduced from 52,052 to 41,154

Livid (r)

upkeep reduced from 20,000 to 15,641

Chlor

build rate dropped from 10 to 8

Epidote

build rate increased from 10 to 12

Edited by ShatterdDreams on 2010-08-28

Edited by BadWolf on 2010-08-29

Edited by BadWolf on 2010-08-29

Edited by BadWolf on 2010-08-29

Edited by ShatterdDreams on 2010-08-29

M Mazuku

23/08/2010 · 10:45 AM #55

HB i know what you mean, the only way that logic works is if the game was designed to be taken literary like that. GC is way to far gone in that respect for that to be feasible anymore lol.

H HoneyBucket{HH}

23/08/2010 · 10:41 AM #54

Well mazuku i think that sometimes we have to forget about what the ships represent symbolically and put first how the ships is used in the game; whether, it creates or, disrupts the equilibrium that is the universe of GC.

M Mazuku

23/08/2010 · 10:29 AM #53

Well a few people are talking about nerfing the range of lakko and hoko personally it makes more sense to me for all SBs to have exceptional range because well, they`re big and don`t move that seems to mean they`d have big guns in my mind. Long-range defensive cannons if you`d like it phrased that way.

S ShatterdDreams

23/08/2010 · 09:51 AM #52

ok two points....

though i`ve seen lost of people talking about pyth here yet no one has bothered to pm me about wanting something to be done about it. nor has anyone post up solutions, which is kinda good because this isn`t the place for it.

second points alot of talk about miners being a defensive race...this doesn`t mean their bases are supposed to be OP. it means most of their ships are supposed to be defensive in nature which they are, most miner ships are hull and high shielding base. if you think they should have more emphisis on bases then we could always remake their capital ships into starbases...

S ShatterdDreams

23/08/2010 · 09:16 AM #51

look people the current hoko and lakko, are out dated, they are not balanced, they`re current BR and upkeep belongs to the old old ships back when lakko still had 15 range....when they updated them all they done was changed the stats used for battling, they never bothered balancing the build rate or the upkeep or the mineral cost. the only reason the cost is different is because the game balances that automatically.

so the only way they`re going to keep the current build rate and the current is if they either go back to they way they were or if we remake them completely, this is a solution to keep the ships themselves the same....

these are the old starbase preupdates, look at the stats and then the BR and Upkeep

Edited by ShatterdDreams on 2010-08-23

H HoneyBucket{HH}

23/08/2010 · 08:43 AM #50

Ned, Transferring the base for a uw reward isn`t the only problem... it still needs to be nerfed so that miners can`t uw so easily and can`t spam constantly to uber pr`s... and oh I feel so badly for those that want to uw in the future and won`t have the ideal uw ship... they will have to fight harder to be successful, and be more creative with a uw fleet. The more you talk the more evident it is that these changes need to happen, so thanks for your input.

N nedflanders

23/08/2010 · 08:03 AM #49

I`m serious, let`s change the lakko build to rate to 1 guys. I`m not even kidding. Because if these changes go through...spamming bases is more or less pointless, which is great. I guess that`s what the playerbase wants to see right?

I for one dont care if these changes go through. It`s not like I`m gonna UW again, I`ve already done all that I planned to do. It does suck though, for those other players that have UW aspirations or the next person that comes around and is interested in playing the game for the UW. That`s who I am standing up for.

If we are making lakkos untransferable (could work as an idea), then why go through all the trouble to nerf it so badly (I am refering to BR nerfs)? The fix to a problem doesn`t always need to be complicated, lol.

Making lakkos G.class makes a lot more than then killing it`s build rate.

Apoapsis: I agree, there is a reason why food is cheap on all TB servers. It`s because playing a tax miner is crabpy as hell to endure with the high base PR and everything. I don`t pretend that I can predict the future, but you know...it doesn`t exactly help promote empires trying to create big tax empires. and I`m not talking about small explorable tax empires, I`m talking about HUGE multiple C3 tax empires that eat millions of food a turn to balance out the large numbers of huge. Just look at mastakilla @ fast...he doest need SBs if he gets knocked down. he can just get borders and fight because his base PR cant be higher than 1 million.

N NumberSeven

23/08/2010 · 07:25 AM #48

Hopeless, that tactic is most important for tax empires, and tax terran isn`t exactly a common choice. Oh, and terran has more colony space too.

...Apoapsis brings up a pretty important point. If miners are so unbalanced, then why is food consistently low on basically all servers? (can`t really speak for RT).

It seems like most people agree with the small changes to the livid, chlor, and epidote, but disagree with the small change to the lyth.
The SB changes are rather drastic: not only increasing the upkeep (to a level higher than the previous suggestion), but also decreasing build rate. The upkeep change would hurt those with smaller economies more...while the build rate change hurts the larger tax empires, and TB servers. Caution must be taken here to ensure that a changed ship is still usable.

O Omegian

23/08/2010 · 07:23 AM #47

Build rate 3-4, i would have changed the range, added hull, etc etc, but thats my opinion.

I would also recommend that lakko and hokko act like the D. Class ships which aren`t transferrable.

Everything else i agree with, Lyths would be spammed more but that is something we can take care of later when we are focusing on the sbs atm.

H Hopeless

23/08/2010 · 06:51 AM #46

Ned..you talk about Basing up to a safe power, what about Terrans, they don`t have the Super base like miners, so no matter the power they cannot be safe with a base spam. Maybe this will reduce the base spams

C CaptainCharisma

23/08/2010 · 06:02 AM #45

lastly like D class being taken away from virals the super miner SB for uws should be barred from prizetaking too dont forget that :)

A AGM94

23/08/2010 · 06:00 AM #44

Im pretty out of touch but id agree with the bases upkeep change but leave the build rates

H HoneyBucket{HH}

23/08/2010 · 05:54 AM #43

I don`t see this as a drastic change... this is a step in the right direction, and if it doesn`t work out then we can start another discussion to changes things again. If you want different changes now then please do suggest them so that they can be taken into consideration.

A Apoapsis

23/08/2010 · 05:51 AM #42

3. why do we just make drastic changes? why can`t we have something like a monthly update and balance things gradually?

U UberPansy

23/08/2010 · 05:49 AM #41

I am with Faultline,
Livid and Epidote boosted
Lyth and Chlor remain the same/ nerf

A Apoapsis

23/08/2010 · 05:48 AM #40

1. watch the market get even worse after this

2. nerf guard

H HoneyBucket{HH}

23/08/2010 · 05:46 AM #39

And I do think that the range on the Lakko should be decreased by one, as many others have mentioned.

H HoneyBucket{HH}

23/08/2010 · 05:45 AM #38

I am also against the decrease in lyth upkeep, mainly because it will be overly used to spam, which it already is, but this would just make it worse... if there was a way I would like to see upkeep lowered for those poor virals but not for the rich miners... but it is a great ship and should cost a lot.

Everything else I very well agree with, I think they will be positive changes.

F Faultline

23/08/2010 · 05:30 AM #37

I`m not a starbase person myself so I don`t have any opinion on them.

Lyth -
What? Seriously? Lyth is perfect where it`s at. That is way too cheap for how good a ship it is. Super spam ship + affordable = overpowered. We don`t need Lyth being used more than it already is.

Livid (r) -
I agree with this. I`ve always thought Livid were too expensive for A.miner. Still, I always used it anyway.

Chlor -
Good idea. Chlor spams need to be nerfed without suffering the ship`s ability.

Epidote -
Finally! I would love to see this implemented. Epidote is a good ship, but the incredibly slow build rate makes them unfavorable to use in ongoing battles.

Epidote build rate increase FTW!!

H HoneyBucket{HH}

23/08/2010 · 05:06 AM #36

Ned... being guardian, with a high base pr and a terrible star base, I am familiar with the difficulties, both on turn based and RT, but it`s not at all impossible, it is not at all unfair... where as the current star bases for miners are unfair and being abused and thus they should be changed.

And yes it is a joint effort by staff and players... as should be every change to the game... this is why this discussion was started to make it a joint effort by staff and players. Your attitude is ill and you are not at all helping to further the discussion.

You are beating a dead horse right now with the same old whip that has been shot down dozens of times... are you hoping that if you repeat the same argument enough times that everyone will just turn around and say: "by golly i think ned is on to something there?"

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