A.Miner Starbase Discussion

Surprise, surprise, everyone against these changes are those who like to uw over and over with lakko... and most of whom have the lakko.

And there are several Miners in CC on RT and one of our most active players on Ultra is a miner.

DM the the goal here is not just to keep it alive, but mainly to make it balanced for the remaining players who have yet quit, which I do not think is too much to ask.

Vicious, yeah my bad... just terribly bored today... plus this is an issue that has bothered me for a long time, so it`s difficult to just bite my tongue at so many ill founded arguments against it, when it is well overdue. Don`t worry school for me starts back up tomorrow and I am taking a very heavy load, so I won`t have time to sit around bugging ya`all all day.

Anyway, who cares, changed or not won`t keep this game alive. Poor management from years, biased staff, ridiculous rewards from NPCs, rigged events, poor ship balancing(somebody remembers when mow was first introduced ?!?). We are all tired enough from that.

"EMC2 wasn`t a very young empire and if even if he was by your standards, he never fights or wastes a single turn setting his empire up. It would take most players years, to get the empire that he has. trust me, if he wants to UW again as a young empire he will :P he is just that good."

I had empire with much higer income on ultra within 8 days. It is fairly easy being a.miner... Just need to capture a cluster or two from some old taxers...

yeah really hb alot of people worked very hard for a long time to control the ranks on the tb servers..... they move slower but as you can see having many of them uw makes the server active the ranks dont even budge if theres no uw... silly to be so anti uw. i re read the uw bump and it looked like the goal was to get people interested in doing uws so they can start creating a diverse stacking possibility. stop complaining so much about how the servers are goin u chose to play a guardian and not be able to uw thats ur decision whatever. but some people chose miner to uw so they do so. maybe if u stopped trying to screw over new players or anyone that isn`t u we wouldnt need to have this discussion. look at the vast array of miners in cc? lol ABSOLUTELY NO REASON TO NERF THE BASES..

don`t get me wrong, I`m not arguing that these changes SHOULDN`T be done...just trying to explore all the possibilities the ramifications of these changes.

Gotta think of the younger players, but of course...gotta keep the olders players happy too right?

hb, I am not trying to be rude here, but could you tame down constant posts and let some different people express their opinions without you jumping all over them. It seems suspicious that you alone are so aggressive about this.

Hey, as long as you are okay with screwing the younger players...basing up is a very legitimate way of challenging the feds that are in power. So now I guess they can`t do that. More power to those who control the ranks then! *brings out the champagne for CC on RT, MK on slow, Random Mob on normal, EoE alliance on fast and BR on ultra. yayyyy no more annoying SBers!

EMC2 wasn`t a very young empire and if even if he was by your standards, he never fights or wastes a single turn setting his empire up. It would take most players years, to get the empire that he has. trust me, if he wants to UW again as a young empire he will :P he is just that good.

AM... if you read through this thread and the one below it just about every single person posting agrees one way or another that the star bases are overpowered... this is not a "couple of CC" getting their way. And the upkeep on the current bases were a mistake made by a lazy admin that forgot to change the upkeep when the ships were modified last. This is fixing a mistake, not trying to cut anyone`s balls off here.

Also, this is not taking the meat out of miners... I find it hard to believe that anyone became miner and spent years as one just because of the star bases... which we have the right to change if we (staff and members) see fit for the sake of the game.

The idea of having bases take you out of dp during a uw will not fix the problem... they can still build tons of them before the uw... the ship is overpowered, there is overwhelming evidence, the largest being the string of turn based uw`s lately that have all succeeded with the Lakko. Also it has nothing to do wtih the problem of vm building and building 200+ mil of bases during dp on RT, every single day.

Ned and AM: As for hurting the younger empires, they do not need to be basing up very high, there is no need at all... they don`t have a high base pr, one should have to be a wealthy empire to be able to base up terribly high... to say that young empires can`t fight at 100+mil pr, so it`s going to hurt them... that`s ridiculous.

And so what a young or poor empire can`t do a UW... They shouldn`t be able to... To dominate the universe should take time and effort.... otherwise you have people just doing UW`s over and over... and things like this that oh so many turn based players complain about.

I agree that there is no need to make major updates to miner. If anything, a small increase to hoko/lakko. They can always be nerfed a second time if need be. I don`t see miners as a super popular, overpowered race.

spot on uber! ur right theres no need to nerf them just inform people to use nirv/flourite/pyth/arag/schrooner on hoko and lyth/tyr/pyth/quartz on the lakko.... if anything they need to reduce kryo upkeep more

The other issue is that RT is a different game than turn based.
Bases are considered `balanced` on RT (okay not really but still) because virals can kill them with a bunch of Pyth or some incomplete argument like that.
But balance on the turn based servers is a different animal, and buildrate per turn efficiency becomes the primary focus. I`m in the old school camp of ship balancing: if you know what the other dude has it should be cake for you to base him using far less turns than it took him to build his fleet.

is there not a way to poll people on this fairly anyhow? 1 vote per account? how would u feel if u spent years building your miner empire so that you would be effective and now they come in with a meat cleaver and cut all the good meat away? Look they can`t be used to make attacks and they lose even pr to must any ship in the game so no DO NOT NERF THE BASES ! there is absolutely nothing overpowered about bases anytime other than in a uw.... so make it where building bases in uw takes u out of dp ahhh good idea me! ok and then one other thing 1 other ship in the game will be affected at all by lowering the range to 9 thats fine but 8 or 7 and u are going way to far. alot of people spend alot of time on here to have what looks like a couple of cc get their way again with whatever they want to change about the game in their favor.

Let me put this another way, here is a list of people who will benefit/be hurt by these changes (everything suggested):

Benefit:
Most of the player base who dislike UWs and actively oppose them :P
People who have done UWs with the lakko (yes that includes me)
Feds in control of a particular server (because there won`t be anymore pesky SBers anymore...which I like to compare to guerilla warfare)
LYTH SPAMMERS!!! lol
Offensive miner stacking...to some extend benefits as well


Hurts:
Newer aminer empires that are trying to fight
Newer empires who are thinking of UWing and planning the resources to do them
Feds that are not the dominant force in the servers, but are trying hard to take over the big boys.
Bigger tax aminer empires (unexplorable 2-3+ base PR) that are NOT part of the dominant feds

Funnily enough, I still think that these changes will almost be elitist, but that doesn`t mean the changes are bad right? :S

Out of all the changes, I`d support upkeep the most, or a complete redesign of the miner starbases (which would obviously take more time and effort)

oh please dont mess with the miner ships lol, arent they tortured enough for being useless stack scouters?

decrease in build rate is extremely harsh. It`s probably not AS bad for RT, but for TB servers...killing close to 1/2 of the buildrate is tough.

The increase in upkeep I can understand, though it`s an unfair fix because like previous people have brought up...it will make things disproprotiately hard for younger empires whereas richer empires will just take a bit longer to get to the PR range they want with bases.

I am also very against the 20% reduction in upkeep to lyth. I`ve always thought that the lyth is the single best, most offensive ship on GC...and making it more desireable to spam can`t be a good thing :P

Maybe after the SB nerf, miners can be compensated in other ways...I know this was suggested a while back..so I`m bringing back the idea of switching shds on the lictor to make it 80%+ to kin. Just a suggestion, can`t think of anything else atm.

Of course, through all of these changes...miners will no longer be the great defensive race they are supposed to be...which saddens me, lol.

Ned, which changes in particular are too drastic? All of them? Do you agree with any of these? What changes do you think would be less drastic but still a step in the right direction?

miner is one of the most offensive race on spacefed with these updates (to lyth especially). (they were previously both the most offensive and most defensive race)

idk, I still feel that these changes are too drastic. We need to be careful, and slowly consider all the possible ramifications of these changes.

SD- maybe you could put that one pic beneath the other?
It kind of borders on spam. :p

very much so... now all we can do is try to balance out what we have and try to make it all work together without any one race\ship being too much more powerful then the others...