A.Miner Starbase Discussion

Coll`s response to a SB spam? Stack with fodder lead on aggro... its not like you can really hide a SB spam considering your pr is spiking while you are in dp... and coll stacking is monstrous :P

words as opposed to ships and arties.

Since still no one seems to be listening, only ignoring me to continue arguing pointlessly back and forth, I`ll try one more time, then give it up as lost and most likely stay off the forum for a while.


Make a ship comparable to the M.Hal available to all races, 4 range, missile damage instead of energy, with a buildrate like the Hal, 1000/turn, with comparable hull, pr, upkeep, and shields.

Every player then has a fairly cheap ship that can take on the SBs at almost even PRs, and UWs will become more difficult for those empires whom try to use pure Lakko spams to win, as everyone, even poor empires who can`t afford the painful upkeep toll that ships like the Lyth exact can use to fight. This evens things out to a degree without possibly unbalancing things, as a short ranged missile ship like the one I`m talking about still gets flanked by I believe every single capital ship in the game, and even the Livid outranges it, making it dead meat against them, just like most of the little ships that beginning empires use, then never touch again.

This way, lovers of the current SBs, who don`t want a huge nerf in upkeep, or more importantly, BR, are still happy, and those people who hate Lakko UWs, now have a fine and dandy method of crushing Lakkos on a PR for PR basis with a ship that has almost as low a PR/Upkeep ratio as the Lakko, allowing you to spam them to crush your opponents Lakkos without going bankrupt in the process.


If people are still worried about the BR issue at that point, you could upgrade the BR on the little ship, still keeping the efficiency of having SBs, but also giving a comparable counter to them, without drastically unbalancing things.

Now, if people have problems with this idea, please, shoot holes in it that we can discuss, anything but just ignoring it to continuing to argue, simply to try to get your points across against people you really want to argue against. It`s beginning to feel like a server wide fed war in here with

@Uber, meh...stacking is broken in this game. You would only stack in these circumstances imo.

a) if you are a hardcore RT player and you have the luxury of being online for longer than your opponents.
b) If you control the ranks and have the luxury of building whatever you want without fear of getting spammed by cap ships.

BW: I`m not accusing CC of being biased. But I do acknowledge that if these changes go through CC as well as all other feds that control the ranks on other servers will benefit.

No. You can`t halfstack and win on a TB server with bases. If I see a basing miner, all I gotta do is:

spam quartz as a guardian
spam nirv as a terran
spam pyth or nirv as a viral
spam lyth as a miner
spam pyth as a maru
sorry colls, they actually dont have a ship good against SBs lmao.

Oh yeah, and once you come outta DP..doesnt matter if you have 20 stacks or 1 stack. I`ll just hit you on careful and kill you.


Like I said before...these changes aren`t really gonna affect me all THAT much. If anything i`d benefit the most from them, lol...so if you want to implement them go ahead, give it a shot...just be aware that you are making miner bases as useless as the chimera/scorpian/diamond when miners are supposed to be a defensive race :P

`cept the Chim ALLOWS retaliation... I still agree that it is to be hidden in a stack, but only because it sux so bad :(

You do know that Chimera has range 5 right Ned?? Given a Chimera, you would never spam it. The Chimera, its seems to me does best in the latter half of a stacked fleet as flanking power.

A properly balanced ship should be readily counterable by a smaller force, things are way out of hand when spams of the flagships of each race are needed just to engage!!

BW: the only problem is that many cap ships beat the lakko on a TURN for TURN basis already before these changes. Yes, herc might build slower, but it still does well on bases TURN for TURN :P

This idea is not-smart. And I could do it better.

4 turns is 2 hours on slow. would just like to throw that out there in case people forget we exist. thanks

making SBs G class to prevent them from being taken is very fair.

However, you gotta be careful in taking SBs away from people who have already UWed. It`s one thing to take away D class. To get the D.class all virals would need to do is build some borreleys and capture it :P


but to earn the SBs on another race...people had to go through the grueling process of UWing themselves and risked their empires dying. Before you accuse me of being biased I want to point that none of my empires on any server has miner bases on a different race :P. So it`s not about me, it`s the fairness for everyone.

yes sib...but we both also know that spamming is the technique of choice for people who aren`t in control of the ranks. So this nerf will actually hurt those who are not in the top fed on a particular server :P

if the hoko/lakko are just as good as the chimera then idk...it`s fine by me Lol, all I`m saying then is that miners won`t be the defensive race that they are described by in the manuals :P doesn`t feel right from a roleplaying point of view you know? i want the miner bases to be good enough by themselves without being too good at UWing

EP: miner bases are already beatable in regular combat. Pretty much any guardian ship, lyth...and all three terran cap ships herc/tyr/nirv can beat it on a turn for turn basis...

someone suggested miner starbases taken away from past uw winners i said yes to that but only maybe to replace it with something else

and Im only using the viral nerf because some people are claiming its an anti miner conspiracy O.o I was just pointing out others have got nerfed before so it isnt anti miner plus staff saying all races looked at again proves that nothing to do with the stats of virals

2ndly starbases are meant to be poor for the most part how would you like me asking for the terran chimera to be range 9 hmmm lol at 5 its ok id prefer range 6 or 7

That is exactly my point... 40% sounds like a lot ONLY when you intend to spam the bases. NOT for stacking use, and as I said before, miners already have Kryo for a fast PR boost. Hoko and Lakko should be comparable to the chimera... decent ships with a much lower buildrate so they are good in stacks.

okay EP I didnt understand ANY of that.

your argument for nerfing miners because we nerfed virals doesn`t make much sense either. As I understand, back when pyth/angel upkeep was .02 PR ratio and virals could have both ships, they would just sit in the ranks at 300 mil+ PR with their unstoppable OP pyth/angel spam.

Go look at the ranks on ANY server. Go ahead. Tell me how many miners are just sitting at their PR in bases?