Updates and Changes

from my understanding, purpose of L ship is to defend against missile to make guardian less susceptible to missile spam. if the attacker is not spamming missile, i don`t see a problem of them killing the L ship.

reducing missile mod of L ship defeated the purpose.

Well, thats getting some nerfing too DM. Though I was nerfing the mods over the hull heh

I don`t have nerves to read all that has been written here any more, but emerald wasn`t the spam ship of choice that should be nerfed. It is FLUORITE. Decrease the hull of it.

Im proving my point as well. And mara, yes we can have 11, however regardless, you dont get the best of the best of each race now. So you deal with 2nd or 3rd best as your top best ship. So what is fair to argue is yes they still have good ships to use, but not the best of the best.

Guards have more variety, but are still spamming certain ships. Thats all im proving Knossos.

Virals are good at RT, because RT has the turns to build thor, pike, borr, cronus and ships like that. If you do that at turnbased you will use 200 turns building 2-4 mil PR at best. Compared guards will get 8-14 mil PR. That makes it impossible to use these ships that are awesome at RT at turnbased servers against a guard. Every other race are basically left with the few ships they got, that got a high enough buildrate to get within reach of the guardian empires. And these ships are not that many - no matter what other race you play.

Guardian ships are way to good for their buildrate at turnbased servers. Giving a race this many ships that are immune to energy/kinetic and ECM and letting the guards build PR so easy, makes them impossible to fight at turnbased. That is the problem.

Depends on what you consider an awesome ship Omegian. I was more trying to prove a point.

i think viral have 11 awesom ships myself , 2 v class and the best 3 of choice from each race...

Actually, Virals only have 9 awesome ships now, please do your math again.

As for tweaking guard ships, Fluorites seem like a pyth to me atm, spammable enough to wipe stacked people. Needs tweaking.

yea i`ve got to agree with Knossos, people seem to be complaining now because instead of using the normal anti guard/ missile ships and hitting guards on agre for an easy wipe they now have to stack to actual win now, before they could just spam tyr, nirv, herc, lyth, lictor, angel, pyth and that would be an easy win until we finally got some ships to defend against them, well besides nuetrals

lose* (Not to say they couldn`t* use slight adjustments)--need to proofread before I post : /

It`s just too bad guardians can no longer missile spammed with an almost guaranteed a victory like the days of old. It has to be horrible having to stack against guardians now not knowing that you actually might loose. Guardians are not as overpowered as you are making them out to be (Not to say they could use slight adjustments). The argument here seems to be based off of a few successful guardians who have managed to create powerful empires.

PistolPete, no offense, but you have very little ground to stand on when you call out guards for having so many awesome ships when virals themselves have AT LEAST 10 awesome ships at their disposal.

pointless.....

Why are we having this discussion again?

"Now they got 10 awesome ships"

omg..

pistolpete you must never see my play to think that i like playing at low pr, my guard empire on ultra is only 52 days old and i`m still working on getting a decent c2 made before i do the missions, i`m still in the early stages of setting my guard empire up, my other empires on the slower tb servers are a lot farther ahead than my guard empire and they aren`t that old either. And you also need to realize that I have never played guard before, in all my time playing this is the first time i played as guard and was before as every other race.

As atractor states: The guardians were very powerful at TB when they only had 3-5 awesome ships. Now they got 10 awesome ships, and they are impossible. The reason why i liked this game is because it made sense to fight for the ranks as a non-guardian empires. Now it doesn`t anymore.

People who don`t care about the ranks and play at low PR like squaks, obviously don`t see the problems with guards. But i know a lot of people wouldn`t like to play the game as squaks does (including me), so in the long run - or maybe sooner than this you will realize we will dissappear from the game, because it has become boring :S.

Africa10hour(s):
"The fact that it takes longer to set up a guard empire isnt a valid argument."

Actually I would differ and say it is a valid argument. Just because it may not be what you want to hear or because you don`t think it`s right doesn`t make it invalid. When you talk about nerfing the guards to such a high degree, it`s important to look from all perspectives.

Not only is it a challenge to put in the months and even years to make a decent guard empire on turn based, it`s also difficult to put time into unlocking all the K.Class ships. There are only a limited number of people on turn based and once they do eventually unlock them you complain and want to punish them?

I`m not saying that I`m against changes as I have said I would support changes to the tourm and some revisions to the fluorite for example, but it`s getting very old listening to same arguments and threatening to leave.

I don`t understand this campaing against guardians. Before the changes RICH guardians were powerful on TB already. For this I restarted my big virals empires to guardians time ago.
Everybody is free to do the same, but you will see that is very,very hard get a good income without cheat. Only the best and active players can get it.
Stop complain and react if you want like I did. For me you can reset all changes in last year and RICH guardian rules TB also. I didn`t ask change the soul of the races when I was viral, I decided go to guardian.
And I want to REMARK, I`m powerful on fast because I have 155 k land with an average loyalty near 3000. Try to get that without cheat, not easy.
In normal server, after more than a year, my guardian empire is still in the age of stone

Infernal: just so you know I am not being biased because I`m a guard player on RT, I am on every server except slow

Normal: maru
Fast: maru
Ultra: guard

I don`t know why you all complain about turns on tb compared to guards, as maru i`ve never had any probs vs guards because even if it takes me more turns to get to equal pr i will have the rights ships to beat them, and no i rarely use d class or pyths on my maru accounts. Every race has so much income compared to guards, sure they can build fast but it is very expensive for a race with a -85% mod on tax and loyalty can`t be added like others

Hey africa, I think that you should really start looking at how much money guard ships cost. Our ships are insanely expensive and as a race, we have to live on tiny incomes compared to all other races in addition to having a hard empire to set up.

if you look at flourite, the ship that you think is grossly overpowered...Ignoring upkeep, building 1 mil PR of flourite will cost you roughly 21 mil guardian credits or so.

Looking at a popular terran ship for comparison, you`ll find that a spamming a herc to 1 mil PR costs about 35 mil terran credits or so.

comparing these two statistics side by side I`m sure you can agree that the avg guardian doesn`t make even CLOSE to half of what a terran does, maybe a tenth of what a good terran makes if we are super lucky.

so, I think things are fine the way they are when you consider that guards have an extremely tough time coming back up after you wipe their fleets...