Updates and Changes

With all do respect Knossos, with me being a very old guardian as well, i find it unfair as well to spam such a ship. Im putting in my 2 cents from other views rather than my own. I can see it from the battle logs as to why this would get spammed more than ruby/tourm before its modification.

And arch, we nerf multiple ships or tweak ships shield for all races, guards are just the category this time, last time it was aminer starbase and terran starbases. But anyhow, my side to this is, we did what was necessary to co-operate with not only the complaints, but the sheer stats of it. Like BW said which ill reinforce, it was a ship that was clearly OP.

Well taken Badwolf The Topaz would probably fall under that invulnerable shielding category, but I`m not too sure about the Emerald with the -60% chemical shielding and low hull. Then again it really isn`t meant to be a defensive ship, or at least I don`t think it is.

Omegian, with all due respect, there has been a lot of complaining on BOTH sides. No need to become so apprehensive.

Really if you think about it, if Guards didn`t put in their 2 cents for something that is effecting them directly there would be something wrong. It`s a Guardian related argument so expect Guardian responses.

From what I`ve gathered it seems the superior Guard turn to PR ration seems to bother non-Guards the most. It has been a characteristic; however, from the very beginning we would almost have to redo the entire ship list to make some people happy.

"i have a feeling that G.quartz wil be the new spam ship after this"

when you nerf one ship, there will always be new alternate ship of choice for spam. after nerfing L ship and florite, you are suggesting quatz.. ok after quartz, what will you suggest? corun? then after corun? how about li xe zen.. then after li xe zen? how about garnet, amethyst? after this it will be tom agate.. once every ship is nerf such that you can win from before pr, then you are satisfy?

i`m not say we cant nerf ship. I only mean that can`t catching up with the br does not warrant the nerf of ship. Because it`s not that the ship is powerful to be beaten, but turnbase lack of turn cant catch up with buildrate. Even before the update, other race have problem catching up to guardian ship. And guardian ship then is useless mostly.

"not sure why people complain about spam ships, oh wow guard has a ship that can be spammed, too bad so does every other race, and if you have a prob with br then play as guard with thier high br and -85% to tax mod for income"

How about not everyone go guard and keep the server boring? I have only seen guardians complaining about this nerf, well you know what, put up with it or shhh.... Every race but terrans have recieved ship nerfs. So take a number and get in line. I should also add why dont you try looking at your old guardian ships before all these tweaks and let me know how your study goes about if they are better now than then.

not sure why people complain about spam ships, oh wow guard has a ship that can be spammed, too bad so does every other race, and if you have a prob with br then play as guard with thier high br and -85% to tax mod for income

If the guardian ships must be beatable at TB, we need to be able to beat the ships with cap ships. Every cap ships has a range bigger than 4.

Fighting flourites with strafez, is something that can be done at RT - not TB. So lowering the chem res mod, wont really affect things.

The 11% decrease of the hull is a change in the right direction though. I just wonder if it is enough.

Btw.. i have a feeling that G.quartz wil be the new spam ship after this.

Range 4 is ok for fluorite, it is lower than almost everything anyway. It is not the thing you should look at. Hull over 120-130k for that ship is insane in my opinion. But oh well, what do I understand of this game...

i find it hard to take a guide with the name jiggly puff serious * chuckles

"Nerfing just because on turnbase other race can`t build fast enough to hit guardian is not helpful. High buildrate is one of guardian unique characteristic. Each race have their own unique advantage and disadvantage, choosing the race to play means you accept the unique abilities of your race to fight the other race."

I dont see all your ships getting nerfed build rate or pr wise, or getting modified to where they are weak. Lets do some math, why dont you compare those ships weapon/hull hull/pr you will see they are still defensively capable if they line up right. They are supposed to be weak if they dont hit the correct ship. A minor tweak in modifiers isnt going to make them paper fodder.

Arch, its futile for TB players who are not guard to build with the same turns, also given that most people have to hit from under to a guard who just spammed up, he loses about 80% of the time on a TB unless he has some advantage by turns.

And actually, a 20% decrease in ECM is not that big of a problem. They are still well balanced ships offensively and defensively. You know you can use fez too, but oh wait, lets just build big pr ships rather than something that doesnt build as big pr.

I`ve made that same argument before Arch, but that unique ability seems to make guards "unbeatable" from what some people have said.

yea the emerald only 20k hull so if anything besides a weak missile ship hit it, it will get wiped easy

Guardian L ship (before bw nerf) work fine. All other race does not have problem hitting guardian.

Nerfing just because on turnbase other race can`t build fast enough to hit guardian is not helpful. High buildrate is one of guardian unique characteristic. Each race have their own unique advantage and disadvantage, choosing the race to play means you accept the unique abilities of your race to fight the other race.

If you nerf the ship because other race on turnbase can`t build fast enough due to the limit of turn, then I suggest increasing the income mod of guardian then. Why should guardian on turnbase accept low income and long time needed to set up an guardian empire when other race can`t accept of having low buildrate?

I agree with Arch. Not sure if the Topaz will be affected too much, but I don`t like the reduction to the emerald with its already high vulnerability.

yep arch is right you are basically nerfing our only def against missile ships, so nerfing L class is pointless to what they are saying, just tweak the tourm and flourite a bit, i`d say maybe lower the mod on flourites