Updates and Changes

So the bases were added for flavor? Fail. Game balance is the primary consideration.

On a side note, bases in UWs are super easy to kill if you have a few BTCs, 10 BTCs tops and a quartz spam and you can kill 100 mil lakko easily...

Chiron is way better than miner bases. Honestly. The only downfall is the lower range. But it can capture.

Change pyth upkeep for virals? I don`t think that is possible, ned. At least Stephen won`t do it. If it was possible, pyth/angel upkeep would have been different for virals than marauders already. And I think if the upkeep is 1:2 for marauders, that will be VERY expensive for a normal marauder(I am not talking about agri marauders with several big c3s).

But yeah, miner bases need higher upkeep. But considering all races have their UNIQUE ships that are VERY GOOD, and bases are just that for miner, the upkeep shouldn`t go up way too much. Hell, terran has herc thor and zeus, viral has cronus borr and chiron, why not miner have 2 strong ships that can`t attack anyway?!?(Still, double the upkeep imo, that will be much better...). I don`t think you guys arguing here were around or did comment on the original miner thread where it was explained why miner got those bases - it is supposed to be the best defensive race and that was the single reason miner got the bases as far as I remember.

`so that a miners can uw without skill` that`s perhaps too strong of a hyperbole?

guys, before we get all caught up in flamming miners...keep in mind that the starbases are defensive. You can`t use them to attack others, which really results in a huge tactical weakness just waiting to be exploited. Trust me....i`ve dealt with ppl who SB a lot before.

Anyways, if we are thinking of changing SB upkeep, then i propose the following:

change pyth upkeep for virals (to something like 50% upkeep:PR ratio)

reason: if miner cant have super cheap bases, then virals don`t need to be able to pyth spam to take those bases down. Hence, nerf the upkeep and encourage more stacking.

make livids a little cheaper (something like 90% upkeep: PR ratio)

reason: i consider herc/livid mirror ships. if you look at the herc...the upkeep is like less than 1:1 ratio. But the livid is insanely expensive. Make it cheaper and perhaps it will encourage stacking

OR

make lictor`s kinetic shd better. Switch the energy shds to kinetic shds. That way, miners will actually have a ship to counter gall, or other really nice kin boats.

I`m glad to see some strong arguments for increased upkeep.

Capital ships are the only option against tremendously high build rate starbases. Building a humongous mass of capital ships is outrageously expensive and only possible for empires with a strong income base.

I think it was a mistake to introduce a ship for such a particular role as `so that a miners can uw without skill` and then expect that it will somehow be balanced for overall play. When a ship has only one way it can be assaulted I think that strategic gameplay suffers.

I agree with PP.

Miner bases need an upkeep increase. They are among the best SBs awailable and it makes no sense their upkeep has to be that low compared to the miner income. As we have seen recently a maru UW has gone off on fast mainly consisting of lakkos.... why should marus be able to afford a miner ship???

Just increasy the upkeep a fair bit, that would balance the miner bases much more.

I agree with PP.

Miner bases need an upkeep increase. They are among the best SBs awailable and it makes no sense their upkeep has to be that low compared to the miner income. As we have seen recently a maru UW has gone off on fast mainly consisting of lakkos.... why should marus be able to afford a miner ship???

Just increasy the upkeep a fair bit, that would balance the miner bases much more.

Yeah SBs are rigged only in UW situations really, but they are not tremendously overpowered - at equal pr they get owned by basicly every cap ship in the game...

and they should deserve to be able to climb high, just like how virals can climb high with pyth (less economy than miner..but pyth is an offensive ship)

hence, my focus on stats...I`m not denying that the miner SBs are overpowered, but I`d like to point out that they are really only overpowered in UW situations, since in normal combat...bases are easily dealt with. (trust me, I have had a lot of experience dealing with SB spammers :P)

Well.. the fact remains that miners got the strongest economy of all races. Their bases cost 15% and 21% upkeep/PR... This is close to guardian upkeep and in the same order as marauder upkeep... I cant find any good argument why this makes sense. Afterall the Miner bases are among the best bases in game - i mean range 10 and 3 types of dmg!!!

yeah, but terrans get the herc...miners don`t have an anti kin boat and I think it needs to stay that way. One race isnt gonna have a definate counter to each and every other race.

btw, herc is a pretty decent ship to use against SBs. So, you arent too hopelessly outmatched by miner bases....

The real issue is miner bases in UWs....and I feel that this would be best addressed by modifying ship stats..not ship upkeep

One race having a counter ship is not sufficient.

I`ll just post my thoughts here:

considering that virals can build pyth really cheaply, I don`t think the upkeep is a huge issue on the miner bases (pyth is a really effective ship against bases)

So i feel that this balances it out...however, for UW situations, bases are slightly more powerful. Perhaps the attack could be nerfed slightly or something to help balance things out a little bit, but the upkeep is fine - as long as there is a counter to a basing miner (pything viral), then I feel the game is balanced.

Yea agree with Think, I looked at that thread you linked to and the changes address some of the very things I`ve felt are imbalanced about miners! Good on you for pointing that out, especially since some of the changes would negatively impact your miner empire a bit. ;)

Good to point that out, PP.

Not much happening with these miner updates:

http://gc.gamestotal.com/hef.cfm?&2337&f=hef_detail&hi=8371&ch=100

i would like it if maybe us guads was given a increase in how much we get from pop tax or even give us a battleship since we stop at crusier

well strengthening the other races and leaving guards untouched is weakening them also ;)

well BW if the plan is to nerf guards br to suit tb then i`d suggest to adjust income to suit tb also, only seems fair