V.Chiron - Scrapped
Chimaera
E: 2,000 > 4,000
K: 4,000 > 6,000
Hull: 80,000 > 45,000
Scanner: 6,000 > 500
Upkeep: 20,000 > 10,054
Range 7 > 4 possible > 5
PR: 50,431 > 21,393
BR: 1 > 1
ES: 35> -30
KS: 40 > 50
MS: -25 > 30
CS: -30 > 0
and well since terrans have been largely ignored through these updates and nerfs, aside from minor emp tweaks and the Fenrir we decided to give them a face lift by nerfing or improving something...so being kind we decided one of the few things terrans lack is a usable starbase. So one got made.
Go play with them, comment on them, and remember they`re possibilities not actualities....or are they?
cookies for all and milk for none and dinner for two, i`m one will you be the other?
Edited by BrokenSwordS on 2009-08-23
Optional Starbase updates
Started by EphemeralEternity
· 18/08/2009 · 09:27 AM
· 49 replies
· 1 read
I really hope the terrans will get that SB. It looks interesting. Range 5 wouldn`t be overpowered imo, and I still think PR (and dmg and hull) or BR should be increased.
ephermeral what do you think on the feedback so far i think pretty muh most ur going to get since the read has fallen down mid table on threads board
A
Africa
I love the chiron as it is (no surprise there I guess). Its a very nice top stack, for several reason.
1. Its easy to get to top stack (good build rate and dp building)
2. Its the kind of ship you have to watch out for. Straz and cap ships dont like it (pyth and nirv are the execptions), borrs do better than cap and straf, but not too well either. The fact that ships can retaliate is not important in my oppinion.
Giving it no retal and lowering range means
1. Most cap ships gets to fire first which is a nerf for sure. Especially the pyth and nirv spams are going to own it.
2. EE, you say that always have 12 other ships you want to put in lower stacks...well I feel completely different. If you make this change, then I feel like I have 12 other ships that I`d rather put in lower stacks (many if not most with no retal) that will perform better. On the other hand you remove a very good first stack by lowering the range.
The chiron is awesome as a first stack because of its mods, but it wasnt too good because of low damage and the lack of no retail.
Also, in viral uws the chiron is essential and lowering the range makes it pretty useless, as nirv and pyth spams will kill it off quickly.
From my point of view theres no point in having bases unless they are something special. They ought be able to be a lead stack. That goes for miner bases with their high range ( I agree on changing the chimera or scorp to something usefull) . The downside of course is that turns spend building bases means less turns for offensive building. Its a compromise. But having a base that is only usefull as a 4th-10th stack is imo pretty useless. Might as well add another semi good ship.
1. Its easy to get to top stack (good build rate and dp building)
2. Its the kind of ship you have to watch out for. Straz and cap ships dont like it (pyth and nirv are the execptions), borrs do better than cap and straf, but not too well either. The fact that ships can retaliate is not important in my oppinion.
Giving it no retal and lowering range means
1. Most cap ships gets to fire first which is a nerf for sure. Especially the pyth and nirv spams are going to own it.
2. EE, you say that always have 12 other ships you want to put in lower stacks...well I feel completely different. If you make this change, then I feel like I have 12 other ships that I`d rather put in lower stacks (many if not most with no retal) that will perform better. On the other hand you remove a very good first stack by lowering the range.
The chiron is awesome as a first stack because of its mods, but it wasnt too good because of low damage and the lack of no retail.
Also, in viral uws the chiron is essential and lowering the range makes it pretty useless, as nirv and pyth spams will kill it off quickly.
From my point of view theres no point in having bases unless they are something special. They ought be able to be a lead stack. That goes for miner bases with their high range ( I agree on changing the chimera or scorp to something usefull) . The downside of course is that turns spend building bases means less turns for offensive building. Its a compromise. But having a base that is only usefull as a 4th-10th stack is imo pretty useless. Might as well add another semi good ship.
ok, fair does -- yes the chimaera has a big big hull and good attack, good mods.
so range 5 is ok ... it can actually take (quite a lot) of punch which is as a SB ought to be :)
I still think virals have it fine as it is.
If you want to add a no retal SB, cut the Chim hull by a third and give it no-retal :)
so range 5 is ok ... it can actually take (quite a lot) of punch which is as a SB ought to be :)
I still think virals have it fine as it is.
If you want to add a no retal SB, cut the Chim hull by a third and give it no-retal :)
I
irish
we like the chimera lol just the chiron is gettn the virals annoyed afyer so manu "nerfs"
D
Deiloche
That chim is godly. ^^; Almost makes me wish I were a terran somewhere.
the idea behind the chimaera was a lower ranged ship that could take a punch and survive to deal more damage, i made it keeping in mind that even though 90% of the ships that get used will attack it first and it`s made to absorb the damage and keep going. i don`t see a problem with raising it`s pr to 5 honestly, only ship largely use that will effect the out come much at all would be with a battle with hercs... but i`d rather not have it at 6 or 7...the higher the range the more something else has to be cut back like damage or hull.
another reason just to cut back on the range is because bases have been gaining range lately, there is no longer a starbase with under 7 range, most are seven with the exception of two, so this give terrans something dynamic plus terrans aren`t exactly hurting for long ranged ships.
Also with Chim and Scorp, i wanted to leave scorpion alone, it`s the base you`ll build when you clearly just want to gain pr, much like the kyro, that`s it`s functionality and the unique aspect of the ship. where as Chimaera would be a slower ship much more worth the time invested, something you build because you want to use it. something if you base with it you don`t mearly just switch out for better ships.
as for the chiron, it`s not my brain child, but i have tested it to see how it does, and if i didn`t feel like it was a good, balanced ship that performed well, then i wouldn`t have fought it and i would not be standing behind it now...Chiron as it is, as a viral there are at least 12 other ships i choose over chiron at all times, the only way it`s worth its weight is catching someone off guard and i`ve lost a fair bit of battles just because chrion crept it`s way into my top 10. this new chiron i would probably start using it from my 4th stack down.
and remember, they`re concepts, they`re not definitive, if you hate them that much we can forget about the whole thing. but honestly you never know how something will do until it`s tested in game
another reason just to cut back on the range is because bases have been gaining range lately, there is no longer a starbase with under 7 range, most are seven with the exception of two, so this give terrans something dynamic plus terrans aren`t exactly hurting for long ranged ships.
Also with Chim and Scorp, i wanted to leave scorpion alone, it`s the base you`ll build when you clearly just want to gain pr, much like the kyro, that`s it`s functionality and the unique aspect of the ship. where as Chimaera would be a slower ship much more worth the time invested, something you build because you want to use it. something if you base with it you don`t mearly just switch out for better ships.
as for the chiron, it`s not my brain child, but i have tested it to see how it does, and if i didn`t feel like it was a good, balanced ship that performed well, then i wouldn`t have fought it and i would not be standing behind it now...Chiron as it is, as a viral there are at least 12 other ships i choose over chiron at all times, the only way it`s worth its weight is catching someone off guard and i`ve lost a fair bit of battles just because chrion crept it`s way into my top 10. this new chiron i would probably start using it from my 4th stack down.
and remember, they`re concepts, they`re not definitive, if you hate them that much we can forget about the whole thing. but honestly you never know how something will do until it`s tested in game
lol I didnt see the range 4 nerf of the chimaera ... why not let it keep it`s range 7 ... it`s still only a mid-level quality ship (plus it doesnt have no retal)
R
Ragnarok
*eats a kitten*
What about making chimaera range 5? I cringe at the 4 range for it, but maybe this will be like MOW originally was except not as overpowered?
What about making chimaera range 5? I cringe at the 4 range for it, but maybe this will be like MOW originally was except not as overpowered?
I
irish
def need a range 5 or 6 lol
I'm with Loof and Arch point of views on the chiron
the current chiron spammed wins like 60% of its battle alone, its hard to kill it blindfolded, but if you know the opponent has it its easy has long you have the turns
i wonder why virals still receiving no retal ships while they are the one race that can have a stack full with no retal
the rest of the races that need the most out of no retal to stop the spams aren't getting any
the current chiron spammed wins like 60% of its battle alone, its hard to kill it blindfolded, but if you know the opponent has it its easy has long you have the turns
i wonder why virals still receiving no retal ships while they are the one race that can have a stack full with no retal
the rest of the races that need the most out of no retal to stop the spams aren't getting any
Well. I thought RT people would like the starbase, as they got enough turns to use it properly. I don`t see what is wrong with the chiron as it is now. It got the upkeep nerf already.
I think virals have enough no-retal ships as it is.
Yes you`re right EE that this is a toughie of a ship.
I still think the current chiron is ok
Yes you`re right EE that this is a toughie of a ship.
I still think the current chiron is ok
Really all depends on the server you play. Precious few people use starbases in a stack on RT...well precious few people stack in the first place. Every RT viral will vote against the nerf. We want to base up easily... From a TB pov...I kinda like it ^_^
E
EvilLoof
I think the current chiron is ok after the last range nerf, 9 was completely overpowered, and don`t really see the need to change it. If you give me that new one i`ve finally found my preferred 9th or 10th stack in balanced defence fleets thou.
The Chim looks allright, about time the terran sb`s got a boost too, thou the current chim is better than than the scorp so maybe it should have been the scorp that got boosted instead if you only do one?
The Chim looks allright, about time the terran sb`s got a boost too, thou the current chim is better than than the scorp so maybe it should have been the scorp that got boosted instead if you only do one?
E
EPrussia
id prefer a ship win battles instead pr let him use scorpian it is still bigger pr than rest
at 6 range archae terrans and maru would only have 1 ship a piece that would be able to deal with that version of the Chiron. aside from ships that it largely out builds, i honestly don`t mind the range at 6 i`d perfer it to be at 9, but since no one even wants to consider how strong no retal can make a ship then perhaps the idea should be completely scrubed. i don`t care either way....
perhaps we can even go with pete`s suggestion on the ship and start shaving off functionality for reduced cost since he thinks having a ship that allows you to go as high as you possibly can in dp is more important than having a ship that can help you win battles.... either way though it doesn`t matter to me
perhaps we can even go with pete`s suggestion on the ship and start shaving off functionality for reduced cost since he thinks having a ship that allows you to go as high as you possibly can in dp is more important than having a ship that can help you win battles.... either way though it doesn`t matter to me
E
EPrussia
hmm could chim be range 5 or br made two lol i no prob wouldnt get either
S
Squaks
wow terrans have bases lol, don`t see those often
I don`t mind about this chiron ... but maybe range 6? (this thing will get massacred by pyth/nirv -- or is that too strong again? ... with no retal maybe it butchers pyth/nirv ... can someone test?)
note range 6 -- flysch hits first, fair since flysch firepower much less
I think the chiron is fine as it is
A BIG YES to chimaera improvement ... is it just me, or did i propose something similar a while back ...
note range 6 -- flysch hits first, fair since flysch firepower much less
I think the chiron is fine as it is
A BIG YES to chimaera improvement ... is it just me, or did i propose something similar a while back ...
Page 2 of 3
Reply
⚠
You must sign in before you can reply.
Sign in to the game and come back — the forum uses your game account.
Sign in to the game and come back — the forum uses your game account.