A.Miner Update Discussion

D DeilocheOP

OP 15/07/2009 · 09:33 AM #1

Constructive criticism ONLY. If you don`t like something, say why. If you do like something, also say why. Useless posts are unacceptable.

Changes courtesy of: EphemeralEternity, BrokenSwordS, Deiloche

G.Lictor
ES: 80 > 40
KS: 40 > 80

Concept behind this change is to give A.Miners a strong anti kinetic ship, which is something severely lacking in the race. It still a big meat shield, but at least it will be able to soak up damage from some of the more powerful kinetic ships.

Lyth
Upkeep: 170% > 135%
OR
Upkeep: 170% > 120%
PR: 30kish > 50kish
BR: 2 > 1
OR
Upkeep: 170% > 120%
PR: 30kish > 25kish

120% puts the lyth in similar range with nirvana, tyr, aragonite, and the chlor for those familiar with fighting with those ships. But at 120% that is too low of an upkeep for a 60k BR. So the idea would be to lower it to a 50k BR, either by changing the BR to 1 and making the ship bigger, or making the ship smaller. Stats would maintain themselves relative to PR, so ratios would not change but actual values would.

G.Livid (r)
Upkeep: 160% > 120%

A good niche ship, the livid is massively underused largely due to it`s excessive upkeep.

A.Hoko
Upkeep: 14.6% > 35%

The A.Hoko is not a huge powerhouse except in UWs, but even in regular usage the upkeep on this ship is far too low, especially for a race as wealthy as A.Miners.

M.Lakko
Upkeep: 21.2% > 40%

The M.Lakko is a pretty good defensive ship and as it`s better than the Hoko it needs more upkeep. However, in maintaining with the standards of the defensive A.Miner race, this ship will maintain a low upkeep.

A.Kryo
Upkeep: 60% > 30%

The kryo is the weakest miner SB and costs way too much. Hence... upkeep reduction ftw.

Edited by BrokenSwordS on 2009-07-15

I Infernal

18/07/2009 · 12:32 AM #47

this lictor, heh, is totally asking to be abused. not very many ways atm for miners themselves to counter pure lictor spammers, who are gonna take 1 per hit just cos its already quite hard to stop(unless stacked, which takes too long for a proper stack imo, or at least the stacks i used to make)

and ive stopped my fair share of gall spams with miner stacks. aint hard..

A Aacra

18/07/2009 · 12:15 AM #46

im not really for this change, herc already does poor enough vs lictor, if your gonna up the ks, take the missle shields down a bit,

D Deiloche

17/07/2009 · 10:06 PM #45

There are two options that include the BR staying at two. Which one is your selection?

G GalacticMercenaries

17/07/2009 · 09:33 PM #44

lhe lyth build rate should stay at 2

D DeilocheOP

17/07/2009 · 07:46 PM #43

Did... you call the chlor WEAK? ^^; Most powerful miner ship. Gall definitely overpowered if collectives think the chlor is weak... ^^;

C collective1

17/07/2009 · 12:14 PM #42

haha slyvzz show me some evidence the gall has the same 30 xshield and better ratios its a shame they nerf it but it still outperforms weak chlor
butu this new lict seems to be bit more problem. no more easy miner slaughterings
*hugs galleon

A Archaeoptyrex

17/07/2009 · 06:39 AM #41

ty Uber for explaining me, and for understanding me!

J JJtheJetPlane

17/07/2009 · 06:36 AM #40

i vote yes on the lictor change :P

Lyth
Upkeep: 170% > 135%

and yes on that :P dont want the buildrate lowered lol

G GradualIncline

17/07/2009 · 03:56 AM #39

I don`t care too much (since I battle one in...well, I was going to say in a blue moon, but it`s even less frequently than that) so long as the total amount of shields dropped equals the total amount gained.

U UberPansy

17/07/2009 · 03:09 AM #38

I think he`s saying that a kinetic shield is in practice a stronger shield than an energy one, so thus the drop in another area... seems reasonable to me at least at face value ^.^

G GradualIncline

17/07/2009 · 01:31 AM #37

umm, it was going to make it weaker in something else, by cutting the energy shields in half

A Archaeoptyrex

16/07/2009 · 11:06 PM #36

How about a compromise? As you say, if you give lictor +80 to kinetic -- giving miners a strong defense in this area -- you should make lictor a little weaker to something else.

A modest drop from +40 to +25 missile mod would be reasonable

thoughts?

But, I`ve had a look on the battlesim and seems I forgot how crummy the current lictor is ...

So I`m now indifferent one way or the other

D DeilocheOP

16/07/2009 · 09:20 PM #35

Chlor spam is one of the few defenses against a collective. :P Not many options for an a.miner to try and survive a collective without spamming the chlor. It`s not enough just in a lead position. *Shrugs*

So, vote. Change the Lictor, or no?

Y Yoshi

16/07/2009 · 06:31 PM #34

the lictor and or chlor spam work vs gall...if you are lucky from 129,99% ( and i hope you aint going agg tbh lol ) The lictor KS improved would maybe let us wipe it...*giggles*

J JJtheJetPlane

16/07/2009 · 03:18 PM #33

i`m talking a stack :P unlike most people i try to stack whenever i can :P

S Slavyzz

16/07/2009 · 03:16 PM #32

hm as a collective I`ve been hit by my fair share of chlor and lictor spams, they seem to work pretty well...

J JJtheJetPlane

16/07/2009 · 03:07 PM #31

i agree 100% with wat pete just said. pretty much every collective spams galleon and miners really dont have an answer to that. ya we can use chlor and hope it works but if they attack us we`re toast the majority of the time. i`d like to be able to have something that i know can beat the galleon.

P PistolPete

16/07/2009 · 10:30 AM #30

I consider lictor a very useful ship for miners. Especially at TB servers, where lyth/lictor spams will eat up a lot of turns at the cost of almost no turns.

I see your point in miners being weak on defense against guards, but i actually find guards quite easy to attack at RT, as you can build whatever it takes to hit them (turnexpensive ships). The biggest problem miners have is the galleon, and as the lictor seems to do a lot better against this ship i think i like the change. As things are now, i completely avoid hitting collectives at RT as a miner, as they always spam galleons, and that is simply too hard to beat.

BrokenSwordS

16/07/2009 · 09:12 AM #29

Proposed G.Lictor changes verses current G.Lictor

Better Against:
Hercules
A.Aragonite
G.Sapphire
G.Livid
H.Galleon
G.Agate
Ruby
Tourmaline
D.Angel
D.Hammerhead
G.Quartz
All of F.Class

Worse against:
G.Corundum
T.Garuda
T.Fenrir
T.Empereur
M.Lyth
M.Flysch
D.Bullhead
D.Thresher
M.Chlor
M.Epidote
M.Illite
C.Cancer
C.Gemini
T.Sentouki
T.Kalieum
R.Sloop
R.Snow
Barracuda
Light Frigate
Light fighter-drone

Note these are not figures just showing which the new lictor would be better or worse against even by slight

Edited by BrokenSwordS on 2009-07-16

S Slavyzz

16/07/2009 · 08:41 AM #28

I have simmed, have calced, and have seen plenty of losses to the chlor (those actual battles being the most valuable info you can have).

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