Guardian

the new emeralds work pretty good vs lyth spam since they got range and hit first doing good damage

curun beat lyth ( need alot of lyth ) Tourm does, (need 2x more lyth to wipe the tourm first round ) L class can beat (not sure) queen king can..runner on def fodder top and use what ever behind...

sorry for my nubiness, is there anything that can beat/bounce m.lyth spam currently? From day 1 i see lyth spams on me, and currently even more so after the change.

that topaz is not good... low hull low firepower.. i`ll never build that other than dummies...

also i`m wondering if guard can have a L ship with 2 weapon type?

420Badwolf if your gonna lower its pr so low then why not increasee its build rate a bit cause now its at 1/3 of its original build rate it won`t be that great compared to other guard ships build rates which should be high

And TWU, people might build tourms a lot on RT where turns does NOT matter at ALL, but if you try playing TB you will see that high base guards almost never build tourm. They build ruby, and that`s only occasionally, li/corun were the preferred ships before. Of course, the newbie hunting guards always build ruby/tourm, but they don`t really represent what guard is meant to be so I am not really considering them the true representatives of the race. Besides, ruby builds at 33k per turn, which is significantly higher than the 20k that you wrote. And I won`t mind if you give me emmy with similar to old ruby`s stats building at 33k 2x+ hull:PR, 1+:1 damage : PR, no retal, nice shields...

L.Topaz
M Dmg 20,000

Hull 30,000
Range 8
Scanner 6,550
PR 53,136
Upkeep 6,600
BR 1

Ship Specials
No retaliation

E Shield +20%
A Shield -20%
ECM +75%
I Hull -60%

that will need way more hull for sure lol, cruiser with such a lousy attack, slow(for guard) build rate and sucky hull - doubt anybody will build that for something other than dummy stack...

that topaz makes me drool mmmmm topazits like a suped up missle ruby

L.Emerald
M Dmg 20,000

Hull 12,000
Range 9
Scanner 9,300
PR 26,436
Upkeep 3,536
BR 1

Ship Specials
No defense
No retaliation

E Shield -45%
A Shield +10%
ECM +90%
I Hull -55%

L.Topaz
M Dmg 20,000

Hull 30,000
Range 8
Scanner 6,550
PR 53,136
Upkeep 6,600
BR 1

Ship Specials
No retaliation

E Shield +20%
A Shield -20%
ECM +75%
I Hull -60%

Edited by 420BadWolf on 2009-04-25

right when i have time i will come up with some figures... for a few different designs.. and let it go from there... tho it would be nice if Deiloche wasn`t too busy to work on this atm =P

emerald right now seems like a decent cap hunter but TWU if this ship doesn`t have the 9 range than what ship would you suggest having 9 range? to takes the place of a smaller but long range ship

DM my post is nothing is not just aimed at gaurds any race with a range 9 ship that builds faster than 20k pr a turn is not balanced
(yes i no collectives build at 24k a turn but just using it as bench mark)

Dm i agree with u gaurds due to high base pr need high build rates but a 40k pr range 9 ship is not balenced..... thus why i`ve always said from the start give them a fast build range 8 cap hunter and a slower building range 9 ship...

would like to point out also torum had a build rate 26k a turn ruby was 33k a turn and these are 2 of gaurds most commonly used ships
i`m pretty sure if emerald was say 25k it would be built it. If its a strong enough ship worth the turns needed to build it people would build it

lol TWU 20k per turn for a guard? You are really biased with your viral there. Most of the guards here have excessive PR and a ship with less than 20k build rate is highly unlikely to be built. I have to say the current emmy with range 9 and a bit weaker shields would be better.

Guardians are the hippies of the Universe. They don`t need that much offensive change >.> <.<

I have to say that the G corundum really suicides badly

few comments ...

i think these ideas should have been rigorously tested before they were implemented due to the sensitive nature and the extend of which ure changing guards cap ships.

I believe and can prove that no ship range 9 should have a build rate obove 20k its simply unbalanced....

also no range 9 ship has any overkill mods (eg 70%+) destroyers are meant to be kill or die ships thus lower mods lower hulls high damage and high range....

i do believe gaurds should have a decent range 9 ship... but it needs to be scaled and balanced correctly... a 40kpr a turn ship with a 90% missile mod is not balanced :p

i have not test corundum yet.. so i can`t give any proper feedback on that but from previous tests if i remember right it owns herc... it dominates angel and tyr on defence but that is it........

i still vote for make topaz a decent range 8 fast building cap hunter and make emerald the fat 20k range 9 destroyer.....

have not try the ship yet.. *own too many ppl counter :P* so i`ll not comment on the corun...

as for the L ship, bw topaz look nice to me.. but ppl seem to prefer emmy to be more aggressive and topaz to be more defensive... so this is what i suggest..

make emmy like terran thor.. high range high firepower low hull.. maybe reduce the pr to around 30k.. and make it range 9
make topaz like terran zeu.. decent range decent firepower more hull.. make it range 8 and maybe tweak the hull and shield..
make garnet like tyr.. high buildrate.. make it range 7

also when designing the shield mod, try to have a mixture so that the L ship can complement each other in the stack.. also would love to see one L ship with 2 weapon type.. maybe a little kinetic or chemical add to it..

I did like the topaz as a more defensive missle ship. Also, the more I think about it, the more I`d like to see the emerald w/ 9 range as borrely spams could pretty much devastate guards on the attack as I doubt many guards would have tourm/ruby in their first stacks on defense after the revamp.

The garnet idea deiloche proposed as taking up that position is interesting. Wouldn`t mind seeing what that woudl entail.

Emmy needs a PR reduction, probably.

Anyways, other ships that will be altered:

Hun-Xe
Topaz
Fluorite
Tourmaline
Amethyst

Maybe:
Garnet
Diamond


If the Garnet is changed it will to make it fulfill the high PR missile attack boat that will be missing if the Emerald drops in PR. The garnet is a decent ship right now, so probably the only thing that would change would be tweaking on the shields. And I do not know if the diamond should be changed or not, I have not used it a whole lot in my time as a guardian.

and Xe should be on the 1 ship to be changed too.