Guardian

To chaos:
Firstly, yes, you`re being selfish. On the same note, it still does a good number on the borr.
Secondly... what does it look like happened there? Really?

Maybe I`m selfish, I still want ruby to own borr. taking no defense would be like making this ship from overly good to overly awful.
I think the lack of range in guard would be one of the reason they attack with careful stance? Give something range, trading some hull away?
And the last thing, make hull smaller to make mods positive? The big numbers are just useless when all the mods are negative. E.g. 200 hull ship with -50% mod would be just the same as 100 hull without any mod

Same argument goes for the existing corr, africa.

Dei, the problem the way I see is not to learn how to stack (which is of course also important), but when it takes 2x times the turns to beat guards with other races then I think its a problem.
We are looking at 2 different things here. FIrst of, how does the ships fare against each other at equal pr and balanced stacks and secondly, how are ships working at higher prs where you "just" cant put straf on top as you please.
I mean, guards can build a stacked fleet at 8 mill for 100-150 turns, that can be anything basically, with any other race you need 2x that amount of turns.
Take a guard on fast attacking from base with 225 turns. What cant he kill with a corr spam on careful? unless youre spamming yourself hes gonna rape most things in a hit or two.
Same goes for the lictor, btw.

I personally dont like the corr range 8, nor the high missile damage on the emy. But then again I also dont like the new king, so call me old fashioned, lol.

I dont like that corrs cant be killed by queens or borrs now (at least not without taking a beating).

Firstly... ruby no def takes the fun out of ruby. So you basically WANT ruby to be heavily spammable? Sorry, I really don`t care. This ruby will work gloriously in a stack.

Corr. Yeah, looks like I`ll have to change it a bit. It`s just not robust enough, I suppose.

Emmy, you guys seem up in the air about. Perhaps a very slight nerf is in order. Though it will still beat tyr/angel. If that upsets you, learn to stack.

surely a nicer way to nerf ruby :/

Special ability
Effective energy shield
.....his advantage makes most energy-based weapons ineffective against them.

taken this not to my self, the energy shielding of the guardians SUCK.
Guardians shouls have +energy shielding in all cases, no negative.

Corundum range increase is really nice
Ruby "no defence" really takes the fun out of ruby`s... not sure what to think
Emerald is nice with the weapons upgrade.

but negative energy shielding.....
never liked that on any guard ship

seems like G class try to change the major weakness from kinetic to chemical?

IMO, G class stick with 99% on energy as counter part to kill energy ship when those try to kill Ruby and Taurmaline. so, on other word, the absorption shield should be G class major weakness; then Ruby and Taurmaline will counter any kinetic. perhaps Corundum will 10 to +20 % on ECM.

Ruby and Taurmaline energy shield suppose weaker like what Deil suggested now, EVEN before the last improve on Guardian ship but the idea was reject because everyone scream on that as killing Guardian.

so, finally someone come up with this idea again. who`s next gonna scream over again?

as for pr, i think G.Corundum can have lower pr to tag with other since the hull was cut.

king does not really help alot since at high pr its difficult to build up and oni those with paid can use king..

since this is still the tip of iceberg, i`ll not don know how unbalance it will be to guard to have a range 8 corun.. but i certainly would like guard to have useful range 8 ship :)

I disagree with africa and arch on that one :P
First, africa, emerald gets a lot of weapon per turn. True. But it dies a horibble and painful dead hitting strafez on all stances. Isn`t really as useful as it looks like, 45k hull isn`t high and a pure missile ship with no defense is definitely something you don`t want to spam. BUT it will crush the spammers, and after all, the ultimate goal is to prevent people from spamming, right? So doube anybody will want to spam crab now with the prospect of hitting a brick wall of emmy. But at the same time emerald will die against pretty much every stack. And I doubt anybody wants to remain with pure emmy spam on defense, it simply won`t work. About the kings, I doubt neutral ship can give a certain race advantage.

About arch, your ideas here seem abit biased, give ruby MORE?!?!? It`s rigged as it is imo, even rigged being nerfed, but it is alright now, not too spammable(as dev said, spammable, but not going to rape everything with ease with this no def trait). Corrundum needs further tweaking imo, range 8 for energy ship with that build rate is too high. 7 is fine. But the weapon/shields need further touch. Maybe drop the range to 7, change absorption shield to 30% and give it E 20k K 10k damage(or maybe kinetic 5k, never really tested any of these, just giving ideas).

how the fun of running emerald in a borr spam on AGG...haah

Hmm... yeah africa might have a point... a 9 range ship building at 72k a turn... AND it beats a ship whose primarily supposed to take down any missile problems with ease (angel). I forsee this being a real problem for not just marauders, but any and all races, especially at high power ratings.

fairly spammable too.

oh, and also, the new king also gives guards a considerable boost. I havent really had a chance to look at threads about it so I dont know if people have discussed it, but it seems to me that old way of attacking guards with missile ships is completely dead. I mean, 3 decent straz ships to kill caps ships and p.class. Now the emerald as well.
I dunno, but guards seem very very strong to me.

Just looked through this quickly. Not sure exactly how its going to affect the game, but I can already now say that the emerald looks too strong imo. Not because of how it fares against other ships at equal pr, but of the 50k damage for one turn. The angel comes close to that with 44k turns, but its much weaker and have a lower range. (still thinking per turn here, which in many cases is what matters on turnbased)

And maybe make more G. class ships have different E and K damage as proposed. As of now all the E and K double damage ships have damage shared between them. This gives more variety to just pure kinetic/half kinetic. And for that, I hate Herc.
Correct me cos I`m a newbie but currently only hunli beats herc on all stances. Strafezs really have to be used in aggressive when guards only attack on careful.

I think the fighter class and frigate class is a bit underused for their lower build speed and lousier modifier. Maybe we need some help revamping them too.
For the suggested change, the only problem I have is G.Corundum now loses to pure energy-based ship, which doesn`t really look nice.

I am not an experienced Guard (understatement lol :P), but judgng the changes would be easier if original values would be shown after the changed ones (so maybe between bracket, in white or something? :P)

may I suggest letting are agates be as good as the reverse engineered G Livid (r) ... lol then I`d be happy

That emerald looks very strong (+90% ecm ... does it beat the tyr on defense? tyr either aggr or normal)

The Corundum still looks horrible. I admit energy damage is powerful, but still, a total of 20k dam and 70k+ pr is miserable. Without hull, that ship will just suicide.

And li and xe are still going to be so-so and totally rubbish respectively?

The new ruby looks nerfed by quite a ways.
With the no defense added, and hull and shield down, consider one of:

1) instead of both no def and no retal, drop those both (so it`ll suicide)

2) range 7 (so will defend now vs sloops, but then also vs tyr etc)

3) build rate increase to 4/turn