Guardian

G.Corundum
E Dmg 7,000
K Dmg 7,000

Hull 40,000
Range 9
Scanner 5,000
PR 40,836
Upkeep 6,273
BR 1

E Shield 99%
A Shield -20%
ECM -20%
I Hull -20%

No Defense
No Retaliation

Edited by Sol on 2009-02-11

I`m open to suggestions. perfectly happy to drop BR to 1. lower hull to 30k. E Damage to 7k and PR to 40k.

Just trying to make gaurd use something other than careful.

yeah, the power of guardians is far more obvious in TB...changing the balance of powerful ships from the slow build ships (ruby/tourm) to the higher build ships has to take this into account.
agree with DM`s suggestions of decreasing cor`s range to 7, and arch`s suggestion of decreasing hull, damage, and PR by 30%...these would still be 2 great ships.

Just a general remark on the guardians. I don`t see why this race is put up as a hard race to play. They already got the best ships by far, and now they are made even better. I think you should probably adjust it to being an easy race to play. This goes for at least the server i play at, which is fast.

i say implement these changes and work from there

Maybe decrease everything(hull, damage, PR, not the shields) in emerald by 20-25% to make it more appealing?

I agree with africa. Corrundum range 7, problem solved. And sol`s ship is pike on steroids really haha.

ah, sry for the long post,

/gives himself a temporary silence!

crack, surely the fact that 1/3 of the really active players loosing angel is something worth discussing in a guard balancing thread.

sol, I`ll take deis suggestion any day over the "pike on steriods" youre suggesting

EE, is nothing like spamming people with thor. You get 3,9 times more damage per turn and 11,25 times the hull per turn (without looking at shields) So its NOTHING like spamming people with thors.

Knossos, people only spamming emmys would be easy yes, but even the most ridicoulous spammers might mix a corr or 2 in there and they your lead straf goes out the window. And sometimes you maybe not be caring about getting taken down as you can just spam the next day again.
The point is that the turns needed to take something down should be similiar to the turns needed to build the ships. I know guardians should be a slight exception to this rule with the high base. Thats why they had the rub and tourm. Of course, if were going to change these 2 ships then we need to give them something else. I understand that. Just think that were pushing it a bit here.
Especially if we`re also taking away d.angel from virals. Building stings/or tigers instead just dont have the same effect per turn as the angel.

The real beauty about this game is that nothing is unbeatable and it simply doenst matter if a guard with a builds 8 mill stacked from 2 mill base from 225 turns and I was to take it out from 600 k base with the same 225 turns. Since the ships are way bigger on the guard side its going to take me more turns to kill them (no matter what his base was), unless Im really lucky to get the right matchups. (yes, Im a fast addict - btw everyone should join there:)

Yes, guards should have bigger ships than other races. More hull and and in some cases more damage per turn, but similiar the should be weaker at equal pr. Its a fine balance and my personal oppinion is that dei came really close and I would just like a few tweakings.

wonder when can we look at other guard ships.. prefer to look at it as a whole.. so that it provide flexibility to add and remove here and there..

I will suggest again what I did earlier (and which archang3l did too)

multiply damage, hull, pr by 0.7

but if you lower the pr, you should prob increase the damage a little

agree with ee :)

deiloche
its not horribly overpowered
its just a lil too strong for the the buildrate

i would recomend either
sightly reducing the missle damage
slightly reducing the missle shield
or scale it back so keep the same proportions but make it only 40-50k a turn

My completely positive feedback, Sol, is that there`s pretty much nothing done right in that ship you made. And they called the emmy I made horribly overpowered... your corr would perhaps be the most rigged ship in the game.

umm well sure emmy can beat all those ships, but it`s not good enough to wipe out 10 balanced stacks, it would be similar to spaming people with pure thor, can work, but not the best of idea`s, also so far it`s the only guard ship that does well on aggressive and gets worse on normal, and far worse on careful which is where most guard ships will still be used. and i know the corund with it`s 8 range looks like it could be a spam ship, but the only beats down herc and angel on aggressive, it just barily beats herc on normal and careful. tyr pyth nirvana lictor lyth still own it pretty hard.

The following is my attempt at building a more balanced corrun for gaurd to use. would apreciate positive feedback. =)

G.Corundum
E Dmg 9,000
K Dmg 7,000

Hull 40,000
Range 9
Scanner 2,000
PR 28,836
Upkeep 6,273
BR 2

E Shield 99%
A Shield -20%
ECM -20%
I Hull -20%

No Defense
No Retaliation

Edited by Sol on 2009-02-11

spamming emerald corun on aggressive will most probably cos the defender to lose some ship while the guard will almost wipe itself from the attack... if u there is really a need to reduce, maybe lower the pr of emerald proportionally to its weapon and hull.. maybe lower the pr, firepower, hull of the emerald by 30%.. don want to have a emerald with firepower reduced and become a giant crab ship in guard shiplist after ruby is nerf..

"on agressive the new emmie can beat

tyr,angel,nivarna,flych,ara,borr, pclass,pyth,hammerhead,livid and lyth"

With a 70k per turn build rate, how is that not overpowered?

Do keep in mind some guards have titanic base pr ratings. Strafez units can make quick work of the emerald also. I would agree the emerald would be overpowered if base pr wasn`t a factor. Plus keep in mind the ruby/tourm would be nerfed.

In the end, guards who did decide to spam ships like the emmy consistantly could be easily dealt with.