Guardian

lots of grammer mistakes my bad, are doing* this and that lol

sorry try ur best lol

dude its a 9 range ship, noone is going to spam it and attack agressive, because of the lack of ranged ship in guardian so what are they going to do

king
queen
emrald
sword
broad
topaz

and i can imagine this stack pawning all the others at high pr or any pr lol In fact this stack can hardly fight, topaz sucks and the lack of ranged ship no not-smart is going to agressive attack lol, yeh with the lack of ranged ship they might base them self inorder to attack agressive, the most guard is doing is normal or careful really


lol tahts the only spam they going to be doing ROFL

sorry for so many posts but i just want to see this update done right as it would be soo easy to make gaurd a god race....
this is my main argument before it gets buried

To summarize my ideas

i would propose making emerald range 8

Atm with range 9 emerald can beat on agressive
borr from 67% lyth from 71% bull from 94%
angel from 95% flych from 64% niv from 86%
pyth from 51% tyr from 53%

also on carefull it can beat
tyr from 55% lyth from 83%
pyth from 88% flych from 84%
angel from 133%

How ever with its current range 9 most destroyers need to be at 80% or more to beat it even on carefull.
pike wins from 92% broad from 107% fsword from 72%
tiger chlorite and calacite cant beat it.
phor on agressive has to be at 220% to beat it
gall wins from 79% schooner wins from 65%
bara wins from 127% boor wins from 79% epidite from 67%
chlor wins from 42% Taurus wins from 76%
amd then yes more missle destroyers
zues cant beat it sting cant beat it odin cant beat it

You need to bare in mind these are ships that build at on average between 10-20k a turn while the new proposed emerald builds at 43k a turn...
when u combine this with the fact that emerald has the potential to take out alot of caps. the build rate seems excessive for the range it has.

my idea of lowering it range 8 would still leave the emerald able to beat most non herc caps on aggressive as well as still being able to beat pyth tyr and lyth on careful, (see the figures above) but would leave the emerald open to attack from NON MISSILE destroyers on agressive... which is only fair as the emeralds build rate massively outstrips any other range 9 destroyers build rate

my idea would be to make emerald range 8 then say make garnet build rate around 24k a turn range 9 with high missile damage... that way emerald would be the fast building anti cap ship which is weak to range 9 destroyer hits ... and garnet would be ure slower building decent
range 9 ship as i agree gaurd do need

also want to point out again arch that u have posted a whole load of a opinion with no facts or figures to prove what ure saying is valid...
i have included shed loads of data to prove all the points i have made to date.....

ArchAng3l
u are right that ships respond in different ways when used a stack but ultimatly if a even stack is to hit an even stack u have have 10 equal pr 1v1s ...... thats where these factors come into play and emerald atm can beat most caps on agressive.... a fair few on normal and even beat tyr lyth flych pyth on carefull...

also i agreed with u on the gaurds should have a decent range 9 ship... on my post way way way back i said
"my idea would be to make emerald range 8 then say make garnet build rate around 24k a turn range 9 with high missile damage... that way emerald would be the fast building anti cap ship which is weak to range 9 destroyer hits ... and garnet would be ure slower building decent
range 9 ship (doesn`t have to be garnet was just using that to show the idea) "

i`m hoping that the rest of the gaurd ship updates will have lots of other things instore to balence gaurd at but the thing that comes across is that ure all holding ure hopes up on 1 or 2 mega buffs rather than balence...... emerald with a build rate of 44k emerald should be more of a cap ship than a range 9 destroyer (yes i no its class is destroyer) no cap ship with a build rate should be immune to all destroyer hits on agro..... whole point of destroyers is that they are very very strong and slow building almost a reward for the time u put into building them.... emerald should be weak to range 9 destroyer hits....
as i also stated in my below post gaurds would have an effective counter to everything....

"u also all seem completly ignorant of the fact that even if emerald was range 8 it would be immune to missle destroyers but weak to say pike, sword, broad epid gardua however all these ships would be ruined by hun li and xe. "
would also like to add that effective counters to li and xe is angel and tyr which would no be vunerable to emerald and corm...
also emerald would still rape borr on defence...

"..u all seem to believe is justified is that its weak to a decent spam... i thought the whole idea was to put people off spaming not encourage it...."

emmy spam is weak against decent spam AND balance stack... this whole idea is stacking for guard.. by comparing how one ship is able beat other ship is similar to comparing one stack spam to another one stack spam... who is the right mind will spam one stack of destroyer hoping to win against a battle... when spamming, its almost 100% chance ppl will use capital ship... when ppl start to build destroyer such as chlorite or sword, they will not be thinking of spamming.. they will be stacking with either capital ship at the lower stack to hold the pr when the destroyer at the top get wiped doing massive damage to the enemy fleet or capital ship at the top stack to take the blunt of the battle and letting destroyer flank the fleet at the bottom..

the whole idea is for promote stacking.. emmy can be killed easily by stacking fleet.. this promote stack for enemy side... spamming emmy can be ripped too easily.. this promote stacking on guard side.. also guard seriously need a long range ship to stack... its almost sucide to stack with those low range guard ship such as ruby li xe at the top.. of course, guard have range 7 ship such as corun and garnet to put at the top.. but did u notice how easily they can be ripped by range 8 or 9 destroyer such as sword borrey pike chlorite? therefore i think its not unbalance for guard to have at least one ship with range 9 to defense against those destroyer... the most difficult thing for guard is stack defensively without using alot of neutral ship due to the poor range... therefore till now oni those guard who is rich and have lots of turns are able to stack on defense.. the rest can oni either spam or mix guard ship and hope for the best...

M that would be a happy compromise but there would be a need to test the increase in damage or hull to make sure it doesnt become an god like anti cap ship....

how about lowering emeralds range to 8 and increasing hull or weapons to compensate for reduced range

also forgot to mention in my rant that the new corm will absolutly devestate herc tyr and angel on defence .... (not sure about tyr but it definatly mullers herc and angel)

I give up >.<
u people read my comments decide u dnt think its right and then give a sweeping generalisation of why u think its wrong with no facts to actualy back up ure points...

"TWU -- your claim is that on aggr, the emerald will beat a bunch of ships. True maybe (I even disagree with that"
That actualy made me lol

my post below contained all the facts and figures of what emerald can beat
u all completely ignore the fact that the emerald can beat on careful tyr lyth flych and pyth.

u also all seem completly ignorant of the fact that even if emerald was range 8 it would be immune to missle destroyers but weak to say pike, sword, broad epid gardua however all these ships would be ruined by hun li and xe.
u seem to want gaurd to have epic ships without actualy thinking of the balence issues....

and alot of u seem to have this belief that because its weak to fez and herc its balenced
another arguement u all seem to believe is justified is that its weak to a decent spam... i thought the whole idea was to put people off spaming not encourage it....

at the end of the day putting emerald to range 8 will have a no effect on ability to beat other caps it just gives it an extra weakness of allowing non missle destroyers that build at 1/4 of the speed the chance to beat it..

also on the anti borr side... last time i checked ruby and torm destroy borrely with ease..... ruby and torm will also destroy all fez ... lis and xes destroy the non missle destroyers and emerald beats tyr angel lyth fllych and missle destroyers..... that too me sounds like a good stack combination..... Emerald does not need to be range 9 it would just have far to few weakness`s

and the figures and statistics to support my claims can all be found in my posts below....

I keep saying this (as other have too) also but:

corun should either get no retal,
or remove the no_defense

At either range 7 or 8 it is fair

TWU -- you`re argument seems to be based on the new emerald being "too strong when attacking on aggressive"

People should bear in mind that it is very difficult currently for guards to attack on aggressive. Range of the overall ship list forbids it (by and large -- all my comments should be read in the overall context, not 1-ship on 1-ship).

Even with one good range missile ship at range 9 ... aggressive stance does not work.

TWU -- your claim is that on aggr, the emerald will beat a bunch of ships. True maybe (I even disagree with that -- have you seen it`s attack-to-pr and hull-to-pr with only missile defense? But not exactly awesomeness by any stretch of the imagination).

But the other stacks can`t handle the agressive mode. e.g. the current garnet/quartz/hunli (which after ruby/tourm are the best 3, not in order) are pretty much owned on aggr if they hit any of their weaknesses (i.e.anything but missile/energy/en+kin respectively).

If you like, the change to the new ruby (decreasing it`s hull, but not increasing it`s range) makes even the ruby suffer when attacking on aggressive (with the new no-defense, it can severly cripple itself on energy as well as missile now). [NOTE: I am not saying the new ruby isn`t still an awesome ship].

Remember that building high-range F class or Strafez for guards are very expensive (first in upkeep; second in mineral cost) and so stacking is hard *anyways*.

I hope I`ve given some indication as to why in the overall perspective, having a decent emerald, even at range 9, does not unfairly benefit guards.

I like the range 9 bit, makes it good against borrs, which i think is good!

Also, the fact that it beats other cap spams is a good way of forcing people to use straf in their stacks! How is it on killing lictors btw (dunno if that was calculated already)

Also with the corr hull down those 2 (emmy and cor) might make decent spam ship, but they are very easily countered with queens and kings!

The emerald today is not causing any problems, is it? eventho it still has a range 9.

TWU I did read your post and you do indeed make a good point. I agree with ArchAng3l and I quote "this update is for guard to have ship decent for stacking and less predictable"

Now we all know that guards have a high build rate as that is the nature of the race. Deiloche and co have lowered the hull a lot and gave the ship -45% E shield and -55% I shield. This ship can be taken down if spam by any half good player.

The last thing Guard need as a whole, is for there only range 9 ship to be taken away from them. That is just plane crazy! The big problem Guard have now, is the fact they get pwned on agg attacks from range.

If anything should be changed , its the shields/weapon mods and not range of the ship. And I don``t think it needs a change.

And i agee TWU, I am not going to rant on this subject. Just putting my 2 cents in because like everyone who posts here, they care about GC enough to post there views.

Did either of you read my post the whole way through at all??
i only did missle destroyers ????

pike wins from 92% broad from 107% fsword from 72%
tiger chlorite and calacite cant beat it.
phor on agressive has to be at 220% to beat it
gall wins from 79% schooner wins from 65%

i count 5 non missle destroyers there..........

and if u want a few more

bara wins from 127% boor wins from 79% epidite from 67%
chlor wins from 42% Taurus wins from 76%
amd then yes more missle destroyers
zues cant beat it sting cant beat it odin cant beat it

yes these destoyers can still just about beat emerald on CAREFUL
but these destroyers build at 10-20k a turn where as the emerald builds at 42k a turn
(i cant be bothered to rant just read my post below the whole way through)

I like you last post ArchAng3l, you hit the nail on the head.

The L.Emerald looks good as it is. After all Maraudian can always edit the ship again if need be.

most of the destroyer u compare is missle base.. u don use missile on emmy with its strong defense against missle.. why don try something like queen.. this update is for guard to have ship decent for stacking and less predictable.. so guard should not longer be always be vulnerable to missile... if u are stacking, this emmy spam should get wiped without much effort..

a very good post twu

ruby *

give my tuby more fire powa