Guardian

I did not say range 8 topaz. It would be range 7.

also could u do that with corm.... make corm like a fat chlor 30k build rate say then turn one of the current more useless g class say athemyst and aplply ure current corn proposal to that...?

just to clarify what ure saying

ure proposing to basicaly decrease emm to 20k a turn but make it a standard decent destroyer eg like a big tiger or chlorite?

and then give topaz the massive 90% emc mod with the range 8.... basicaly making that the nice fast building anti cap ship which owns tyr but is weak to destroyers

if that is what ure saying i think that is a very good idea....

I prefer TWU suggestion to make emmy low buildrate high firepower ship... keep garnet as high build then... its always better to have at least a 9range ship since it certainly help when fighting uw... now guard cant do anything when the uw have alot of high range ship at top... they can only wait till those long range ship is bring now then they can start hitting uw...

ermmm if emerald was to be the only range 9 ship :S errr
i would say take my garnet suggestion and completly reverse it eg. make emmy even stronger but hack back the build rate to 20-30k and (if you can) put garnet to range 8 and leave it with high build rate.
(did u mean u can`t change the garnet at all or you can only make small changes?)

if not i would say slightly alter the emerald so it has even more firepower and even less hull.. maybe increase some of the -mods ( eg go from -45 to -25)
this would make it become a pure offensive ship eg u want to be the one attacking with it not letting someone hit you on careful.

But then it wouldn`t really fit in.... cos range 9 ships want to go on aggressive where as the rest of the guard fleet wants to go on careful so it would be completely situational when u can actually use it :S
its hard......

thinking about it tho... do gaurds entirely need a range 9 ship... assuming u gave them this emerald range 8 and the new corm..
talking in terms of on defence
for
energy and kintetic range 9 destroyers you have xe li
for tyr angel lyth you would have em and corm
for missle based destroyers you would have em and fez
for fez you have ruby and torm
for herc you have li xe and corm
and ruby and torm still slice and dice every none herc ship on offense.

i think it would be quite decent if you left em at range 8 but either increased its hull a bit or slightly increase its kinetic mod just soo it can hold its ground slightly better against angel....

also i don`t think it would hurt to slightly increase coruns hull as atm its use is very situational.. eg good against herc and angel on defense. and tyr on aggressive on defense and thats about it...

sorry that this is more rambling that structured and i haven`t included any data cos i dnt really no what i wanted to get across i just wrote down everything that i was thinking :P

Firstly... your comparisons look a lot bigger of changes than they are because you are taking (at least the corr and emmy) way out of context.

Secondly... I said largely. I changed three ships to be more offensive and give guardians some firepower. In general, a more defensive race will be maintained. That`s the point.

Lambad: It also builds much faster than most any other range 9 ship. And if you think it`s a "little bad" then you really don`t know what you`re talking about... the topic here is whether or not it`s too good.

That Proposed Emerald looks a little bad going by the red numbers..

Both ratios almost under .5/1. Wouldn`t most range 9 ships have a weapons/pr ratio close to .75-1/1 with bad hull/pr? You could give that thing Zeus range with weapon and Hull that low >.> <.<

Then again, I don`t know how most things go here so please correct me as soon as possible v_v

Deiloche "The goal is NOT to change guards from the largely hull defensive style race."

but the proposed changes

G.Corundum
Hull 120,000 to 65,000

L.Emerald
Hull 60,000 to 25,000

Ruby
Hull 25,000 to 16.000

especially the ruby you take away half the hull and only give 1K damage

unless they come up against a missle 0r chemical ship, since most guard ships have low range they get handed their rear on aggressive

if you make emerald range 8, I would suggest 30k hull, +40% kinetic

could probably drop the missile defense from +90 to +80

They can already attack on aggressive. The idea to the update is to give you more options when fighting and make the ships more unique and have their own roles. The goal is NOT to change guards from the largely hull defensive style race. But if you know what you`re doing? Guard on aggro is devastating. Ask ultra, I just almost wiped him on normal with an aggro guard assault.

So Guards have 1 ship with a range of 9, they still cannot attack on agressive

Hmm. Awesome feedback TWU. A few comments about the general nature of the design of the emmy:

Yes, it beats quite a bit in one on one battle. Definitely a good ship for fighting spams. But if somebody were to spam the emmy, you could easily annihilate them by even partially stacking, because the ship is quite weak to flanks.

However, the range 8 comment is quite valid. However, the plan was to not alter the garnet, as it is already a decent ship and I am not certain that I am allowed to change it for that reason. IF this is the case, and the emmy is the only guard ship that can be made to be 9 range... What is your suggestion now?

This is hypothetical. It`s been quite a while since I worked on the ships and I`m not entirely sure if I will be allowed to play with the garnet. But please think about that and see if you all have any comments taking that possibility into account.

I thank all of you who are giving good and solid feedback, especially you TWU for actually LOOKING at the ship`s performance.

i also completly agree with LT

its soo hard judge individual ships when u can`t see what the rest are going to turn out like.....

i think i was saying to DM the other night you need to divide gaurd up into 2 parts the fast building decent ships and then the slow building really good ships
the main point i was trying to deliver is although the proposed emerald isnt really amazing but i think range 9 is too good for the build rate that it has..........

yes.. agreed with all LtCommander point...

pls show us other guard ships which will be undergo changes... lets do it in overall guard ships so that we can overhaul guard stacking..

I like some of your ideas TWU.

I would be quite happy with a range 8 Emerald IF we were sure that Garnet got 9 range.

I like the idea of G.Corundum getting no retal with its no def even at range 7 IF we were sure we would get a range 8 G class ship.

The big problem here is the fact they we can`t see what ALL the Guard ships will be like at the end. So it is going to be hard for us all to agree on what is best.

The ideal way would be to put all the Guard ships up and have a good discussion on over all balancing and the needs of each ship. We would at least all be on the same page as it were.

and viral have the power to select what ships they want which gives them a huge advantage of variety so let guards have some ships to

i would like these tested be4 all of this really i would want it left at 9 range but i say let us or a select few guards test them and post results and yeah guard ships have no range so aggresive hits would be suicide unless u had the cash and time to build the neutrals....

TWU
how about leaving guard build rates alone. Virals are already overpowered and all your ideas do is make them more powerful.