Ship Balancing

Macbeth, yees the viators are out of balance the amount of money yyou cna make here is more than 25% less than UC. Viator II has 25% stats except for upkeep therefore the upkeep is much more of a drain than on UC. I only got out of debt last time by selling ore which is much more useful early on than on UC. Making planets with 1600 viator IIs still takes me 8 to 12 turns even if i only get fodder planets. 1600 is already more upkeep than i can make up by selling my excess non-ore gains for the pervious day. I make about 4000 white crystal. And, much less amount of other resources. If i hadn`t been storing ore i would have any money.

and i see more terrans with stats that are not half as good as those with other races average.. more or less..

not that i`m not happy.. juz thought that since every other race gets talked about, i thought that terrans should get some fun too.. maybe a normal new ship that that is uncapturable and viral can`t rev engineer so that the old virals won`t lose out.. something like pike but with terran upkeep.. :P don`t know why i have a love of pike.. lol.. i never was a marauder.. to complete it i was never a guardian either.. the new ship should be for paids only thus those paid terrans would have king, broads and another ship to play with thus having more paids in gc.. coz i noted that some terrans have been terrans for a long time and having paids but didn`t change race thus tis is like a loyalty ship for them which other races won`t have access to..

note that i`m not asking for godlike ships.. lol.. :P

on another note terrans should be happy other races they have trouble with, if any at all... are being weakened and tweaked etc....

A miner wont be getting no nerfs

theres a small idea of double the upkeep on your small starbases but thats the only thing on A miner thats a problem , chlor lictor etc are all fine...

tthe most ubalnaced ships of all are viator and viator 2. Takes way too many to gain resaonable turn count and the cost is outrageous. They wre weakened by 75% from UC yet the upkeep cost was kept the same. Even though the amount of money you can gt is much less. The upkeep cost should be lowered to resonable levels. The power is too high really in power for such little gain in both games.

agree with DM and infernals` last comments: yeah, on TB servers the markets are so inconsistent and demands are so low that commercial empires probably have it the best, actually. (seems like the UTU got it right)
the agri/tax continuum probably comes next, but this is unstable since food prices are so volatile.
then comes the CG way (consider colony count and lack of colony mods)
if food prices are reasonable, plunder probably would go here.
and finally the mineral miner.

heres the thing..Miners are really only really rich on RT where you have all the time in the world to click click and click...and where the market constantly has buyers
as DM said, only tax is a viable long term high income strategy for miners. now throw in a high base pr just like guardians and take away the reasonably good high build rate ships. now you wanna make it hard for regular non-tax not very rich miners to build something that makes it easier to put together a decent defense.

go play TB before you even think about talking about a race in the game. RT is too skewered for a view, and is pretty much a game on its own already

Because the other message I am trying to send you is even with 1:1 upkeep : PR on miner bases people that annoy you basing them(yoshi) will still base them. All these upgrades are becoming a personal war for people that are irritated by a certain tactic/player. Well, I also hate people basing. But miner bases got rigged a while ago for a reason - all other races have better arsenal than miners. Not some, ALL. Bases were given to fit the equasion. And for fast - soon there will be no food at all there, remember my word. What do you precious tax miners then ? VM? Kill their pop? Food on ultra is pretty scarce as well. Minerals on ultra doesn`t sell either - I can assure you that from personal experience. I am not saying miners are poor, but they are so very market dependant, and if you have miner on slower server, where a certain condition makes you start a certain income type, changing is very difficult. And besides 2-3 people on RT spamming bases, I don`t see that many starbase spams on TB unless somebody builds for UW. And that`s the idea of those bases - give miners advantage during UWs.

Well make starbases get you out of DP then!

the point i was trying to get across with the first bit is that there could be a 101 reasons why there are more of one race in the rich list and not others......

my incomes are very very basic i admit...... there based upon...

food at 10
mins at 1000
no planet modifiers

its clear tho that if theres a balenced market miners are by far the richest.....
food is pretty reasonable all servers atm bar fast where food is at 2 and 1 thus tax miners will be even richer..... all servers bar normal have a big cg demand.... mineral miners somtimes struggle to get the stuff sold... but in the main are still fairly well off......
and argi terren is just one asspect of terrens they are all still miles more profitable than commercial terren

if u look at both the terren star bases they both have pretty low upkeeps but they are also both pretty useless... the miner starbases tho are even cheaper and are alot more usefull but this whole argument is straying away from the whole point that mac was trying to make


Macbeth
116min(s) ago
"""But my origional idea, I didn`t even think about who makes more or even any incomes, it is simply I think being able to build in DP to avoid counters and get a power advantage on an enemy should cost anyone, regradless of race, a load more... although I realise on TB this causes problems with enslavement.""""

I can assure you there are enough old miners that aren`t rubbish as well.

Your statistic is pure rubbish TWU, you can`t compare incomes dependable on the market. What, agri terran is profitable with food at 1? Because food WAS at 1 on fast. Or maybe tax miner is profitable with food @30. Sure, you will make some cash, but won`t be rich either.

DM

that statistic is a load of rubish ...

there are soo many things that could ruin that data eg there are more terrens than virals on average all the terren empires are older and thus have more inf and land than the miners... miners use more cash when building up or existing miner dnt like to hoard..... the majority of miners are newbies and dnt understand there income potential...

DM
FACT miners are the richest race.... i worked out somewhere race income per inf per unit land per turn

the top 3 where
tax miner
mineral miner
cg miner

number 4 was argi terren / argi collective...

i agree with macbeth u should have to pay$$ in order to gain pr without coming outa dp to avoid counters or simply get over people

doesnt change the fact either that lakko and hokka are probs the most effective and probs the second cheapest start base going

But my origional idea, I didn`t even think about who makes more or even any incomes, it is simply I think being able to build in DP to avoid counters and get a power advantage on an enemy should cost anyone, regradless of race a load more... although I realise on TB this causes problems with enslavement.

I know macbeth. That`s only on RT thou. And there aren`t that more miners avoiding richest list compared to terrans and virals.

The only really appealing rich miner option that is giving profits in the long term is tax. Unfortunately not everybody wants to have the high base PR so that`s not the only way to play miner. And also, those bases are really the only cheap decent miner ships. On top of that a viral making 10 mil is by far richer than miner making 50, you know pretty well how incomparable income types/races are. And those bases were junk before, they got upgraded for a reason - to make miner more appealing for new players because people were not happy playing a crab race just for the money. What do you really think, that the upkeep will change SB spammers? That it will prevent them from doing so? No. Do you think nerf on the maru ships will stop people from spamming them? I don`t think so. Maybe not to 300-400 mil PR on daily basis but spammers will always spam.

=S Rich list doesn`t really apply for who has the biggest income when your talking races...

Are they TWU? As I am miner on normal server being 900 days old with 600 planets and 200k land and I am not even on the richest list. And mineral miners income simply stalls after everybody stocks. That leaves only tax miners as very rich option(at least on TB). No offense but richest lists on TB servers aren`t dominated by miners. Not even on RT.

Top 20 richest, slow:
8 miners
6 terrans
3 virals
2 collectives
1 marauder

normal:
7 miners
10 terrans
3 collectives

fast
8 miners
8 terrans
4 virals

ultra
6 miners
11 terrans
1 viral
1 guard
1 collective

RT
8 miner
10 terran
2 viral

TOTAL:
miners: 8+7+8+6+8=33
terrans: 6+10+8+11+10=45
collectives:2+3+0+1+0=6
virals: 3+0+4+1+2=10
guards: 0+0+0+1+0=1

well, it turns out miner is not by FAR the richest, it is not even the richest across the servers.

yes dm

cos miner are by far the richest race.....
and these cheap ships are also very decent ....

they are actualy very good star bases for defending ... the only other remotly useful star base in my opinion is the chiron but that is a fair bit more expensive than the miner star bases and virals arnt even half as rich as miners....

i think its more the fact that its a cheap and very usefull star bases... if they were cheap but awfull eg they were good for basing but on defence they folded to everything no one would have an issue ..... or vice versa... eg they were good but expensive but atm they are dirt cheap and pretty decent