Maru Ship Update (Part 2)

D DeilocheOP

OP 05/06/2008 · 04:52 AM #1

Alrighty, now that I have most of you agreeing to the upkeep mods on the marauders, let me unveil part 2 of my interesting little plan.

First of the modifications to the marauder race, Maraudian told me that he would like all marauder ships to have no retal and no defense, barring a few. Pyth will gain neither, the pike and the shark will not have no defense. (By my suggestions, anyway, feel free to comment.) It was considered removing no defense from the tiger, but testing showed that this overpowered it drastically.

While I have tested these ships for the last several hours, it was mostly testing of the ships in scenarios where they would likely be used. If you have reason to believe that these changes will either over or under power the respective ship, please post and show examples of why. The idea is to balance out the marauder race.

Eel, Manta, Ray have `No retal` and `No defense` added.

Hammerhead: Energy shield reduced from -10 to -20, Chemical shield reduced from -15 to -35.

Shark: No retal added, buildrate increased to 10 (20,520 PR/Turn)

Bullhead: Range reduced to 7

Piranha
E: 100
K: 100
H: 750
S: 35
R: 5
PR: 411
BR: 40
PR/Turn: 16,400
E.S: -20
K.S: 40
M.S: -5
C.S: 20
No R
No D

Barracuda
E: 400
K: 400
M: 100
H: 1200
S: 75
R: 8
PR: 1292
BR: 8
PR/Turn: 10,336
E.S: 35
K.S: -15
M.S: 5
C.S: -40
No R
No D

Sting
M: 1300
H: 1300
S: 25
R: 8
PR: 1633
BR: 10
PR/Turn: 16,330
E.S: -25
K.S: 30
M.S: 30
C.S: 0
No R
No D

D DarthSparky

06/06/2008 · 07:02 PM #29

I don`t like the idea of bullhead range dropping, although I`m sure Deil has modelled this thoroughly.

I do have some sympathy with Geng, Drk, Arch and ching - are we convinced there is a case for change? If Maru were so overpowered, we would we not have alot more of them playing?

C {ching}

06/06/2008 · 03:05 PM #28

Who said Maru were unbalanced in the first place?

I Ishamael

06/06/2008 · 01:50 AM #27

no firepower, lol... i meant No Retal... i dont know where that came from. lol

I Ishamael

06/06/2008 · 01:49 AM #26

alright, here`s my problem with that sting. i realise its meant to be a secondary missile firepower, and with those stats it MIGHT be useful for a 5th stack or lower im thinking.. but at least the current one has some defensive qualities (hull :P) looking at the tiger (Which i`ve always thought was a very great example of a well rounded ship) why would anyone want to build that sting? the tiger has only 100 less firepower and 200 more hull, with the added range, not to mention the 115 less power rating. all in all if i were looking for secondary missile firepower i`d stick with the d class...

and i understand your comparison to the pike as well, but the reason the pike is such a studdly ship is because of the no firepower, two weapon types that AREN`t missile (possibly the worst weapon type in the game.) and the outstanding range, wouldn`t you agree?

D DeilocheOP

05/06/2008 · 11:00 PM #25

GENG: Maybe you should actually look at the stats of the Shark, eh? A little less damage and hull per PR compared to the C.Taurus, same range, and it has no retal. No retal is a beautiful ability on a defensive ship.

Generally speaking, if you are playing the game with the plunder income you`re not meant to climb super high. If you want the ability to climb high with all the other races, then get a base PR and collect some clusters. DM has shown how lucrative that can be, and what with these changes you will no longer be a massively easy target at those PRs.

G GENGHISRAHN

05/06/2008 · 03:06 PM #24

the shark would be useful if it`s range were increased and weapons values increased. the chlor comes to mind . Otherwise i`m resorting to C class to fill that niche.

G GENGHISRAHN

05/06/2008 · 02:49 PM #23

It`s been pointed out a few times, marauders don`t have much for economy. Increasing upkeep on capital class ships is going to make it prohibitive for marus to climb in pr say to participate in UW`s.

Going back to the narrative that marauders have pyth/angel spamming tendency`s
I wouldn`t be able to contend with the higher races if I didn`t rely on stacking.
I heavily rely on stacking.

G GENGHISRAHN

05/06/2008 · 02:33 PM #22

I`m in agreement with archaeoptyrex. The ships are pretty well balanced. I ask for restraint. Just because we have the ability now make changes doesn`t mean we should, just for changes sake.

D DrKiNfEcTiOn

05/06/2008 · 12:20 PM #21

ya sry dev but i honestly dont think any maru ships need nerfing.. or improving on that matter.. i think only upkeep should be fixed..

A archaeoptyrex

05/06/2008 · 11:59 AM #20

Thoughts -- sorry I don`t seem to agree much -- but I don`t think maru`s are a race that need much "fixing".
One more decent ship would be good, but current ones have decent balance already.

pirhana. sure no retal is nice ... but I`m not sure I`d use high-hull range 5 ship that has no defense ...

I have to disagree on the barracuda. Currently usable maru ships with hull are barracuda, shark, and to a much lesser extent, sting.
We need the hulled barracuda -- otherwise we`re stuck with C class which are far too expensive. And I wouldn`t drop its build rate either.

I think at range 7 the current barracuda chemical shield mod (-40%) is a killer. So, range 8 for barra.

Range 7 for bullhead might be fine. But, then, bullheads are gonners vs. queens. Remember, there`s already 350 scanner rating on a 6.3k pr ship :S -- Bullheads currently aren`t great. That scanner rating would have to be dropped.

With the sting, I have a similar issue. I agree the current attack is rather pathetic, but we need some hull too. I`ve not tested any numbers but something like 1100 attack, 1700 hull, 1650 pr might be ok.

Unless you want range 10 tiger, range 9 sting :D (which is actually not unreasonable).

D DeilocheOP

05/06/2008 · 11:08 AM #19

Is that a reference to when I built 60 mill PR of hals on RT? Ahahahaha. :D

I`ll do some more testing and suggest some tweaks tomorrow... hopefully I`ll have more feedback to work with by then. :)

E EphemeralEternity

05/06/2008 · 10:39 AM #18

i like deils ideas i know his capablities and trust his judgement....on top of that the stats look fine to me as far as spamming goes...people will spam anything...one of my favorite examples of this is the hal..

keep up the work deil, if i can be of use let me know

D DeilocheOP

05/06/2008 · 10:04 AM #17

Buildrates should be higher for smaller ships compared to destroyers.

And the bullhead is absolutely rigged with range 8, but at range 7 it is still a great ship but not nearly as untouchable.

T ThEpAkIsTaNIeMpIrE

05/06/2008 · 10:01 AM #16

del, bullhead is suppose to be 8 range, its a cruiser, i don`t agree on that.
giving the prs?? The rest i agree on, but i have a question if i get 16k per turn from that pirana i can get in 10 turns 160k thats like a spam to me, but i see that quick building and swarm can bring this new ship to play, you can use this as a new weapon against miners.

C CounterCrazy

05/06/2008 · 09:51 AM #15

I like these ideas... however im not fully understanding them all but they look for something i would vote for

Hammerhead however i think its fine the way it is & i like the shark
love the bullhead to 7 range.

however Deiloche thought it out & i think i agree. I highly support giving power back to the little ships.

O OpusDei

05/06/2008 · 09:38 AM #14

it always ends up the same way...sad but true

i think deil is doing good work here...not many are putting that effort into calculating new mods...they can be good for someone and worse for another but atleast he puts down a base on which we can discuss...

we should be happy that finally someone got the permission to edit some things...brings a bit of colour into the game...why dont u do the ship mods and i ll test every single ship for ya in real battles.the mods on the smaller ships seem yummy.

D Deiloche

05/06/2008 · 08:29 AM #13

I lost arch`s msn, loofy is in Australia and even when he logs on doesn`t care much about GC, and DM just went to the US, and is probably unavailable for the summer... Anfit is constantly busy, quaint quit... but yeah, thanks for the comments, anyway, though I wish you`d help more, ahaha.

D DarckKnight

05/06/2008 · 08:20 AM #12

i like your ideias, i just focus on what looks odd to me, the rest seems fine to my way of viewing things, but don't get me wrong i know how it sucks to calc and try to balance ships for hours xD i'm just picky on things =P
me do more calcs about it ? go ask arch or loof or drunken get them all in the same place plus a couple others, somewhere in the middle of what these guys decide is a good balance of ships lol gonna take a while(days xD) to get everybody to agree on things we all have different ways of seeing the game

D Deiloche

05/06/2008 · 08:04 AM #11

Yes, I have. You actually know what you`re talking about, which is why I`m trying to bully you into making suggestions. :P I spent hours testing and making these ideas, but that was by and large only me. I need other people to look at them and test them. Which is why I want you to talk to me on msn and discuss this stuff with me. :P My biggest concern is making the barracuda NOT simply a junior pike. And by the way, Darck... the Barracuda has `no defense`. That really should ease your worries. :)

D DarckKnight

05/06/2008 · 08:02 AM #10

whine and complain is what i do deil =P i'm here to terrorize your ideias with "whine and complaints"
how about instead of actually reading me like winning or complaining(like most guides A do, you that know me better than that) you try to read me has in giving a suggestion or my input on things?
I know nobody gonna listen to me, i have been around in this game to know that people that actually know what their talking about don't get listened to on this game (you have been on that side of the wall too =P)

Reply