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A miner Nerf

Started by Maraudian · 30/08/2007 · 03:24 AM · 162 replies · 1 read
M MaraudianOP
OP 30/08/2007 · 03:24 AM
well yes we made them a taf overpowered , but for the greater good , now were balancing them out so be prepared for the below and dont blame me , this is just a small step to balancing the results ( Major spam abuse of the updated ships resulting in them needing to be tweaked )

M lyth Build rate is now 2 per turn rather than 3 , this is perfectly fine and fair

G lictor is now 1 per turn and all shields were dropped 5% ( no big deal but has haled its build rate and made it a tiny most likely unoticable difference )

M chlor damage reduced 50


this is just a small change that took place a few minutes ago
T Theworldunited
30/08/2007 · 07:46 PM
attractor...
virals might not make as much as other races but in fairness they still make enough

tax and argi viral both make more than comm terren.... also i no alot of viral players which make 10mil+ a turn which is more than enough to spam 10mil pr of herc and still be inpostive..... so ure right they might not make as much but thats compensated in the fact they get the best ships....


not making as much is not an excuse tho to give them pyth and angel with 1-20 upkeeps .......... i beleive tho the general feeling is to increase it to around 1-5 per turn still quite low but not soo low that they can spam it to 100mil on 5mil a turn upkeep......
B Balzac
30/08/2007 · 07:46 PM
is the update a final update ? people must say they`ve finished so that the new Virals can choose `finally ...` their ships.
S species382
30/08/2007 · 07:43 PM
well, Atractor, i appreciate your fear for the poor weak virals.....

as a matter of fact, first, virals are not soo much poorer than terrans, and second, even with a build rate cut of 1/3 of the big ships, and a .7 upkeep per pr for maru ships, virals can still build balanced fleets a lot faster than terrans (and miner and colletcive and marus), i.e., they can spend the leftover turns for researching (=generating money), and in addition pay less upkeep due to the lesser turns they need for building.

How much more advantages do you need to make it attractive to become viral?
A Atractor
30/08/2007 · 07:14 PM
and we have to recognise that the game is more balanced than before the changes, i don`t understand why to much ppl are so critic with maraudian. When i was terran 2-3 years ago, virals really was the only powerful race, collectives didn`t exist, miners only had flysh ... do you remind that?
A Atractor
30/08/2007 · 07:05 PM
hey dudes, everybody is talking about balancing the game, seems anybody have in mind that paid races must be 1 step over non paid. If not, why take paid? only for 15% faster turn generation and little advantatge on dig an explore?
all the `free` online games have a `paid` option that give a nice improvements vs non paid.
Stephen knew that, for this is normal that will be some top races vs other non paid races.
if all races become balanced, then the improvement should be for example some more special ships only for paid, not only broadsword or livid(r).
and last thing, if someday increase viral-maru ships upkeep without touch anything else, virals will die quickly, they have much less income than other races except guard, and the multiplier for virals in build ships (x3 in terran and miners) and (x6 in maru). Can have maru low upkeep fleets is the main reason to be viral, can have 6-7 capital ships without enough money for build and keep them, is the same as have nothing. Then, should be better for virals have more own ships as other races.
I don`t undestand why nobody have in mind paid-non paid subject
D DrunkenMasters
30/08/2007 · 06:36 PM
Species, you are wrong about the first 3-4 stacks about virals and terrans, there are quite some stacking terrans in the slower servers than RT, but yeah, when your base gets higher and you have a few turns you HAVE TO spam.

see this is a menetal condition here people , you have to spam , you cant blame him but alot of people are acustomed to this line of thinking , they have been brainwashed hence dont like the idea of spam being less turn affective ( only thinking of themselves )

Edited by Maraudian on 2007-08-30
F FOUNDERS
30/08/2007 · 06:05 PM
Maraudian answer me 1 thing if im after some viral and he running scared and spams pyth angel or herc how am i as a miner supposed to catch him if he already slightly out of range as this has already happened to me since update. in the end i had to give up the chase. increasing the upkeep does nothing but increase the cost for them and if they are long time players they can easily afford it.

so how do i do that?
if you can tell me then ill have no problems with what you done.

straf on agro can beat all 3 pretty cheap and easily , gota love letting them hit the stuff , if they hit on agro , most likely vs an A miner , but your A miner ships will still outbuild his in PR , pyth 40k angel 40k herc 40k , G lictor 50k M lyth 40k

but then , why would he have a counter on you so hes gona hit you on even pr so its up to you how you want to beat him , but it aint hard , i could beat that kind of spam without anything but nuetral :/

Edited by Maraudian on 2007-08-30
4 420Renegade
30/08/2007 · 05:20 PM
Yes, The whole world knows viral upkeep needs nerfing, and limiting the number of juggernaughts/dreadnoughts would probably be a good thing to consider as well, but anyway..

Yall are seriously mistaken if you think this updates object is to STOP spamming altogether. Thats 100% impossible, its simply to lessen it, and it will do that well. Spamming is a part of the game, it has its pros and cons. But with this it`s easier to take it out, much easier =/ Will limit the amount of people who think some easy spam will keep them safe now, and may intice them into building something like a real fleet. Queens are no longer outnumbered in buildrate 5-1, now maybe only 2-1 or less, depending on the ship being spammed, and they will beat every capital ship on agg cept for Tyr =/
S species382
30/08/2007 · 05:13 PM
Reducing the buildrate of ALL major capital ships will not stop spamming. For example even with 1 herc a turn, hercs build more than twice as fast as any terran or neutral destroyer or cruiser. That is still a big buildrate advantage, however, it will be less tempting to do so.

Lets be honest, in the current gameplay, the first 3 stacks of a terran fleet consists of herc, tyr nirv, a viral fleet of pyth angle and maybe borrs, and miner have lyth lictor and a hand full of dummies, and the very motivated people have one big other stack of a destroyer. Thereby all hover in such a high pr, that one can only attack them with a fast building fleet within the turn limits, i.e. again with herc/tyr/nirv pyth/angle or lyth/lictor. So the usage of big battleships is a self-fulfilling prophecy.


And one should also consider, this route is also one aspect to NERF VIRALS.

The maru ships are probably the biggest advantage of virals. However, the ability of virals to have 5 ships with a buildrate over 60k pr per turn is also a great advantage compared to any other (paid or unpaid) race.
4 420Renegade Admin
Admin 30/08/2007 · 04:58 PM
Your an unskilled newb if you think terrans are totally underpowered. It`s that simply most people are to lazy to establish an empire, and viral is just easiest. I can own any top viral no problem if I went terran. It`s not the ships fault if you suck with them or don`t know how to use them.

And reducing build rate of caps will make it EASIER to stop the viral spamming. Pyth and Angel are easily taken out by something EVEN CHEAPER, Its called straffez, EVERYONE has it. Use it. Yes it builds slower, but with these lowered build rates on pyth and angel, itll be easier to catch up with queens and such. So your dealing with two problems in one update.
T Theworldunited
30/08/2007 · 04:50 PM
i think putting the ships down to

herc 1 per turn
lictor 1 per turn
Lyth 2 per turn
Pyth 2 per turn
Angel 2 per turn

is actualy a good idea makes stacking more apealing as its nt as easy just to rapidly spam one ship ...
C Calladad
30/08/2007 · 04:38 PM
oh, Calladad = Africa...(thats right...)
C Calladad
30/08/2007 · 04:38 PM
well, youre not making my point boomzilla.

So far the updates have been great!

Could they be tweaked,,,yea a bit, maybe.

Do we want viral upkeep to change? sure. Is it gonna happen... not likely.

But dont ask the admins to stop meddling. We finally got one who updates what he can. Dont scare him away. Even if he makes an unpopular update!
B BoomZilla
30/08/2007 · 04:31 PM
Thank you Africa for making my point..

"Its all viral and the occasional terran who dont know his place ;)"

Edited by Maraudian on 2007-08-30
A Africa
30/08/2007 · 04:20 PM
long convo,,,,

So, first of all. Thanks for making updates Maru. Great to have someone do that:

But, those builrates werent that bad. I mean, I havent seen anyone on turnbased controlling the ranks because of those build rates.... Its all viral and the occasional terran who dont know his place ;)

Miners were fine. I loved the old update. Thought it was great!! I mean, anyone who can spam lths with that upkeep should be allowed to do so!!

;)
D DrunkenMasters
30/08/2007 · 04:18 PM
I want to say that it`s not miner pwning left, right and centre, it`s viral. All viral. And terran DO need upgrade to keep up with all the updates, true, it was and still is balanced race... but it was nerfed indirectly by upgrading all other races(besides viral). At least do something with kalieum, emp, and increase the build rate of the smaller ships a bit.

this nerf will benefit terran the most , they have 2 capitals that avoid being touched while every other races are lowered

Edited by Maraudian on 2007-08-30
B BoomZilla
30/08/2007 · 03:54 PM
sorry, but this needs restating:

slow:

1 EvilLoof Viral 339 12,365,373
2 Deiloche Viral 101 11,051,247
3 Ishamael Marauder 8 10,825,695
4 Infernal Terran 42 4,118,806
5 alex01 Terran 141 1,569,046

Normal:

1 EPrussia Terran 165 61,198,757
2 Knossos Terran 213 60,039,186
3 DkCivic Viral 604 26,045,913
4 Tauren Viral 142 14,431,382
5 Sinarya A.Miner 118 14,013,236

Fast:

1 Gronoria Terran 775 106,387,171
2 DrunkenMasters Viral 252 90,471,044
3 Omegian Viral 786 66,666,666
4 Africa Viral 151 34,088,411
5 StormofBladeZ A.Miner 1 25,012,641

Ultra:

1 Africa Viral 593 99,186,568
2 Balzac Viral 335 78,620,138
3 Archaeoptyrex Viral 370 48,648,196
4 species382 A.Miner 315 38,893,015
5 Uminom Terran 368 35,484,805

RT:

1 HoneyBucket{HH} Viral 78 420,420,420
2 ShAd0wS Viral 128 206,009,297
3 420BadWolf Viral 498 127,712,128
4 ShatterdDreams Viral 422 115,000,000
5 Blazed Viral 75 113,214,523

That`s worth looking at.
You want to balance the game?
Really?

no offence but power rating means nothing in this game , alot of empires have whats needed to easily climb above , they just choose not too , and yes we all know viral are kings of the ranks , thats no big deal i didnt make the race and cant edit the race , all i can do is change ships , there angel and there pyth will cost more turns costing more upkeep to sit there , but it aint that big a deal to em etc

Edited by Maraudian on 2007-08-30
S SonofCommunism
30/08/2007 · 03:52 PM
meh i just started to think about this and yeah i sad it wont effect me but am taking that back completly ..those build rates there for a reason ..it wont efect spamming only will make a destroyer spam more effective if before ppl could simply outbuild it to deal with it ...after the update they just gonna have to deal with a loss ..things like ruby spam and tourm just gonna be really nasty to deal with if u dont have a herc ..this update is useless ..and the complains about miner spam was just simply couse ships were new and ppl simply didnt knew how deal with em ...the only ppl who still complian about miner ships are " miner ships r to overpowered my angel spam doesnt beat a litor spam anymore ..how is that possible"

yer 1 herc ( 1 turn ) can bear how many turns of ruby / tourm ? , tyr and nirv will also remain as they are for now ( however ide predict nirv and tyr to become the new spam to spam ) but yes , this will benefit guardian and terran a little more than other races

but it will benefit all races , especially those who know how to play and use more than just capitals , no offence but you could delete my ruby and tourm right now and i could still play without any trouble , same with herc tyr nirv lictor lyth etc , there nice ships but they arnt your only ships ... , its simply going to take a few more turns to build ( obviously more the higher in pr you go , this will also slap upkeep up a bit more )

Edited by Maraudian on 2007-08-30
D Deiloche
30/08/2007 · 03:35 PM
*Yawn* Yeah, actually, I have seen plenty of terran holding their own against anything but viral. And that is because of the upkeep on pyth and angel for virals. Which has been mentioned.

No, the game isn`t better than pre 1.06. Nobody said it was. But it is better than virgin 1.06.

And no, nerfing the buildrate won`t stop spammers from spamming... but it will give others the ability to actually fight them with stacks rather than spams using way less turns winning simply from sheer numbers.

thank you deil , atleast someone can think of the big pictures , and show they know what they are talking about , as your also turnbased i like the fact you like it even more ^^

Edited by Maraudian on 2007-08-30
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