Aminer Shiplist Suggestions

Who cares how is miner considered... It needs improvement, it is good that mara won`t listen to pointless comments like that :P

Miner ships aren`t all that bad, they`re just really really hard to use well. If anything should change, it should be that the Miner race should be considered moderate instead of easy.

Hiig, Chlor is so useless atm that it won`t affect absolutely anything...

Overall looks nice. If possible give us a test round on the DM scene to see if these need additional adjustments.

ops.. i m mention on M.Cholrite n Calcite but not the Chlor, also keep the No Defense for them.

anyway, M.Cholr dmg increase will make the chain effect to incerase the dmg on M.Epidote n other M class too to balance the dmg per pr. so, just becareful when thinking on increase dmg.

M.Epidote:
old shielding: E: -5, K: +30, M: -15, C: -10. suggest new shielding: E: +5, K: +35, M : -15, C: -15

giving Epidote better enegry + kinetic shielding will helpagainst some Marauder n Collective ships epeically Pike n H.Galleon spam at mid low pr. on other way, 35% on kinetic will give another choice to Miner when encounter Ruby n Taur spam, it will deal same dmg like old Epidote but lose less pr in battle.

M.Cholrite n Chlor:
hmm, pehaps we can slightly reduce the scanner rate to increase the dmg per pr? after all, beside the range, Cholrite n Chlor already got what P class dont have: upkeep n hull. i dont see the point to get extra range nor dmg for them :)

A.Aragonite shield:
the 1st new shielding come in my mind was E: 0%, K: -30%, M: +40%, C: 30% while i try to recontrust it. with the range 7, now u will have a good ship to counter Tyr n Angel spam in defensive now. A class got good chemical shield, so 30% chemical shielding will be a good strafez fodder + killer too. it will be a good tag with other capital ships at high pr. increase it build rate to 8 OR decrease its ship class to battleship to get higher dmg, hull, weapon per pr

remove the livid, just kill it and don`t even worry with replacing it

Tyr is a lyth killer indeed hiig. Nerf aragonite o.o It is soo dang good, it need to be nerfed! Starbases` range nerf for UWs won`t make huge difference, anyway lyth,tyr,nirv,pyth will be still better than destroyers in terms of damage per turns used.

P.S. Species, I am talking about using these ships in a 10 stack balanced, not in a half spam.

right now,miners can defend very well already
only prob is killing something....
oh sure they can counter...wait what..counter with a defensive stack on rt? bloody impossible lol

`Miner ships suspose to be suck.` what theory is that? in overrall, Terran also got suky ships. when ppl yell Terran make too much income, they never think on the Terran ships cost n upkeep. both Terran n Miner suffer on the highest upkeep per pr but Miner can support upkeep easier with market trade.

M.Epidote:
+20% on enegry shield... what`s the difference with the T.Garuda shielding? a better version of T.Garuda LOL y dont just make it 0% on enegry and increase the kinetic shielding to +35%?
Any Particular reason in general for this idea ?

M.Lyth:
if u want to get +1 range for it, make sure nerf 1 range on Aragontie OR just recontrust it.

M.Cholrite:
all the missile units do have no defense ability to balance out the high dmg per pr. well, not sure is it a good suggestion.
however this is apparently A miners strong point , just never lived up to that name

M.Cholr:
agreed.

M.Calcite:
same to M.Cholrite.

A.Aragontie:
either re-contrust it OR improved the shield, nerfe its range if Lyth get range 7.

other:
SB still have the problem, like someone posted, with power UW, SB will quite hard to be taken down. like i mentioned before, just give the 2 SB with range 8 prehaps with no retail), another with range 10 will do. it allow players to use Destroyers kill SB from lower pr but not all the careful spam on the SB.

Lictor still need some works. prehpas decrease some on the kinetic shielding again to make its weakness more obvious.

increase the build rate of smaller ships of Miner n so to Terran. after that Flysch should be able to get some build rate improved too.

make sure Miner dont get 3 range 7 ships, it will be a disaster later on. dont make Viral getting even stronger when improve the Miner.

also, it is a joke that someone mentioned Tyr is a Lyth killer in previous post LOL

Edited by Maraudian on 2007-06-09

And btw, if you laugh about my proposal about a range 7 Lakko with no retal, you for sure also laugh over D.Angels and Tyrs do you?

This is basically exactly the behaviour i sketched previously, it is allway claimed, that miners shall suck at attacking, because they shall be a defensive race, however, if you suggest a ship, which is actually good at defence, then people complain, that it is way overpowered....

Well, counterquestion, how many people do you see investing most of their turns in a low-buildrate fleet?

From my experience it is much more efficient to buils high-buildrate ships, which do the job, and some selected low-buildrate ships which have outstanding qualities like the pike. The
Illite is definitely NOT sufficiently outstanding, it is much more a low range sword....


So bottomline, i do not see what one wins by investing the whole amount of turns in a illite/Chlorite/epidote stack and the n get sacked by a pyth spam.....

I forgot epidote, it is very good as well.

Again you don`t know what you are talking, Illite`s build rate of 9k PR per turn is comparable with the destroyers so it ain`t that bad. I have been leading it on normal several times having balanced stack at 1.8-2.5 mil PR so it isn`t impossible at all to be put in a stack(especially defensive miner stack with the nice bases` build rates, lyth and lictor).

Well, indeed the quality of illite, flysch and chlorite exceed the lyth, but by their build rates, you can not build up a competittive stack. be4 u start stacking with illites, you can start building C.Gemini...

Ok, I am listening to some pretty absurd suggestions. Pure missile ships designed to go aggressive without no retal? Are you high? Chlor needs more damage as me and deiloche said, not shield increase. Chlorite is good as it is, higher build rate of epidote will be nice to see, but after all, look at garuda and pike`s build rates, they are almost identical.
Species, your suggestions are completely disbalancing, not balancing. Lakko with no retal? Don`t make me laugh, that will make miner UWs even easier(I don`t think that they are difficult nowadays with the right support anyway). A.Kryo`s suggestion is good thou. Since when lyth is the best miner ship? I think the best miner ships were illite, flysch and chlorite but who am I, just another newbie under the sun. Lyth need range 7. One more thing to add, miners aren`t that rich compared to other races if we take in consideration upkeeps and stuff. What about tax viral? Collectives aren`t poor as well. Agri terran? You are always comparing best miner incomes to the worst terran and viral(commercial). Compare CG miner to tax viral or agri terran for instance.

P.S. I am not saying miners aren`t rich I am just saying that ALL races can be rich played the right way (maybe excluding only guards). And there is not a single race supposed to be pwned all the time.