Aminer Shiplist Suggestions

Well, currently its not primarily the fault of the lyth that ppl (including me) spam so much, it is more the lack of posibilities to fill the other 9 stacks with decent ships.

So if one wants more (and more stacking) miners out there one should start to boost the other ships accordingly, and not by starting to make the lyth less appealing. After one has sufficiently boosted the other miner ships well, then ok, but not for the start. The here proposed arag here is a good start even so if you compare it to the battleship/dreadnought class of the other races it still suc.ks a.ss.

But already the update of the lictor, http://gc.gamestotal.com/hef.cfm?f=hef_detail&hi=3856&ch=100
here stalls. Common, a ship damage:pr ratio of 1:4 with nice shields, but without decent Hull, that the shields actually work out, common, and that then will be the only high-buildrate ship of the miner. How shall you counter someone with something like that......

Its just like pWn3dN3wb13 demonstrate here so beautyfull: 2 Lyth = 66k pr per trun indeed sounds good at the first sight, but if you consider that one round of building lyth does less dammage than one round of Tyr/Nirv/Herc, and less than half a round of Pyth/Angle buiding, this build rate is not great at all.

If the update works out as you propose, that fastbuilding miner ships will get significantly higher hull times shield than the other-race ships, well, then everything will be ok, but currently if you consider the Hull times shields of Herc, Tyr, nirv, pyth and also angle, the stamina of the big miner ships is currently prob even inferior to them, paired with way less dammage. And on this basis it is qiute hard to accept a (in my eyes) further weakening.....

True, flysch is good for spams and half spams but nowhere as effective in balanced stack + I`d rather take lyth with range 7 to counter guard and nirv spamming terrans than with flysch. Not to mention all the pyths flying around. Flysch, range 7 29k build rate and lyth range 7 66k PR build rate, hmm. Well, I uderstand your point but imo lyth should be made more effective for stacks. As it is now it simply provokes spamming. Dropping the build rate and increasing the range will change that at least a bit.

uh huh, you consider 66k PR per turn low build rate o.o

argumentation? or arguing?

"DrunkenMasters: Species, scroll back..."

I have read it, and recognized it, i just wanted to add another view to the argumentation, that should be allowed in a free world.....


"having range of 7 helps countering way better than having build rate of 3 per turn (pyth, nirv,ruby). That are my arguments."

Well i just doubt the validity of the argument: Miners have already a quite good range 7 ship, the flysch, and there one can actually study very well, that a low build rate is quite a significant disadvantage, especially for countering.

Of course one can reduce the build rate and increase the range. However, in my opinion, this does not make the life of miners significantly easier, on the other side, it makes some game aspects, just as countering for example even harder. And the last thing, the mineral market needs is more challenges for miner. Further i see it in the end, that the Arag will become a range 6 ship with the argument, miners have already 2 other range 7 ships.......

Species, scroll back and you will see that I wrote my arguments at least 2-3 times so read before comment. Tyr and Angel have range 7, why lyth should have range 6? Having lower range, no retal and big build rate makes it just another spamming ship, that`s it. Tyr and Angel have well higher damage:PR, lyth should have higher hull:PR, that`s the way to make it defensive, not with some crab range and high build rate. The build rate doesn`t affect how defensive is a ship, doesn`t it? And having range of 7 helps countering way better than having build rate of 3 per turn (pyth, nirv,ruby). That are my arguments.

seriously, i dont really think Chlor need alot dmg improve, prehpas just slightly. like T.Kaliuem Cruiser, they are act as fodder more like attacker in combat at most of time. prehaps just give a better shielding will do. i would say, increase the cheical shiled to +30%, kinetic increase to 40%, keep the enegry n missile. this will allow Miner to use it as counter V class too.

also, if Cruiser dmg was increase, dont u think the dmg of Destroyer should increase to balance out? it is very intresting that Cruiser can have both higher dmg n hull per pr than or just similiar to a Destroyer

i prefer drop the Aragontie ship class to battleships, so the 5k pr + range 7 wont be quiestionable for its ship class. after all, u will get higher dmg, hull per pr.

and seriously, only the missile ship will have longer range. Aragonite was the only 1 excluded. so, of course, range nerfed will come in to some ppl mind.

no doubt, shield must be improved. either use a new shielding OR just increase kinetic to -35% and increase to 30% to other 3 shields.

well, DrunkenMasters, that also applies to you.

This thread is a discussion! If you dislike any arguments, that do not support your personal wishes, feel free to formulate a reasonable counter-argument, or you should consider going away silently (nicely formulated).

Btw, a range 6 Lyth does not suck attacking (well, on miner standards at least), especially if you can outbuild your opponents. That will no longer be the case with a reduced build rate.

*pokes maraudian* Sorry, I assumed you were doing the updating, as I haven`t seen eternus post anything.

And... either a slight hull increase on the lyth or a slight decrease on the scanner rating, pretty pretty please.

Some increases to the lyth`s hull should be included, methinks...

And lets concentrate on what maraudian & Eternus is willing to update, first. Hence all the discussion about these ships.

[ thank yar ]

Edited by Maraudian on 2007-06-11

Species, you are just one drop in the ocean, if more than half of the people think that lyth is better with 66k PR per turn build rate and 7 range, it should be that way. And btw, each race can be both defensive and vile, depends more on the player. So that miner is defensive doesn`t mean all its ships should suck attacking, right?

My 50cents:

1.) One question: why discussing how to modify Lyth and M.Epidote, thats 2 out of 3 ships (the Flysch is missing), which are actual reasonable miner ships. Why ignoring the ships, where practically e4yone agrees tthat they su.ck a*s, i mean Hal & Kryo for example?

2.) I personally would prefer a range 6 - 100k buildrate lyth over a 60k range 7 version. Simple reason, the build rate mapped on the dammage gets to low. If you consider, that a Lyth does roughly 0.5 damage per pr, that means the build rate per damage drops to <30k damage. Thats a smaller damage-related build rate than all the big battleships, i.e. Herc, Tyr, Nirv, Pyth and Angle +Ruby. If miner shall be defensive and live by countering, u have a problem with this build rate. Again, the modification of the Lyth shouldnt be the No 1 topic as long as a Kryo is out there....

3.) The A.Aragonite with improved build rate and better shields becomes actually usefull, I would even propose to make a battleship out of it, the 5k pr is a little bit very small for a dreadnought, and it would reduce the pr of the ship by 10%.

However if you consider an emperator like this http://gc.gamestotal.com/hef.cfm?f=hef_detail&hi=3841&ch=100 even the upgrated arag doesnt have a chance in comparison.....

4.) removing the no defence from the M.Calcite is counter-intuitive for a pure missile ship. (and by counterintuitive i mean bad for the transparence of the gameplay) . Just increase the range +1, thats sufficient.

5.) Chlor with 500 damage would actually be usefull.

Disagreed about chlor, it needs more damage, it is big fodder now. Miner has enough fodders already.

Ahahahaha, I`m sure you`d LIKE an increase on buildrate of destroyers, but no way is THAT going to happen... that is the one ship that should NOT increase in buildrate. Destroyers should get 10k per build, with everything else at least 15 - 20k.

M.Chlor is just fine
upkeep is the only issue but its alright other then that already

why suggestions going on when im on vacation mode?

M.Lyth agree on the range part & dont mind the build rate change how about -3k power as well

M.Chloite alright

A.Aragonite shield increase has always been needed. i would lower power rating to 4.5k..

build rate increase of 1.5x to 2x for most destoryer & crusier ships would be nice.

_______COUNTERCRAZY_BELOW_talking to himself mostly_________________
this might help A.miner a bit... A.miner have sucky big ships thank you for upping them but A.miner main ships are our slow build rate ships that pretty much make us strong in combat but vs a spammer they can get killed easly. take Jugg Nirvana Tyr, Pyth, D.Angel

all but jugg are strong in Energy & if they attack carefully all these ships survive an Energy ship pretty easily

Queen & Runner are to weak & take to long to build & are best on countering most of these ships, but if these ships above attack first on careful (pyth, jugg, tyr) they will kill queen & Runner...

D.angel is a really good ship to take on missile ships cause of its modifier & hull making it hard for any missile ship to beat but also it has Kentic attack with 7 range which kills alot of other ships. Missile ships, Energy ships (modifiers again on careful & even normal attacks) Runner (if D.Angel on defense) things of this nature.

CounterCrazy is bored

Hiig: Sorry, pretty sure I have claim on that one, I`ve been suggesting it non stop since January when Maraudian first leaked that he was updating ships. *grins* Though I think this is the first time he noticed and/or agreed with it...

Anyway, the primary reason why the lyth is considered a decent ship now is it`s buildrate. We`re reducing that and making it normal compared to others of it`s class... hence why I suggest the increase of hull to 40k, because then it`s other stats are competitive, as well.

anyway, i dont really have good suggestion for the Miner smaller ships. what i think is: they all need the build rate boost and nothing much just like all Terran smaller ships.

i only intrest on the Lyth n Aragonite as they are the mafor ships in fleet at high pr :)

meh... make Aragonite 8 per turn, build rate to 40k was my idea too *slap Maruaidna again ;P