angel pyth nerf

Bloody hell yeah rise the upkeep ( sarcastic) you know how much it cost for wiral to build maru ships? more expensive then any other race on normal it`s actully quite a luxyru for a viral to spam pyth or angel to high pr...

lol any race can make plenty of money at 200 mil PR Viral can just get there faster. As for spamming u really wont see the end of it by nerfing the RE`d ships and if u think it will then frankly u haven`t got a clue. Don`t get me wrong I am for nerfing the upkeep on Pyth Angel, but think b4 u post.

Increasing viral upkeep + nerfing the REed ships will stop the spamming

Personally im not against the spamming but the fact that some freakin empire makes money at 200 mil PR wth?

with 10 million profit you can go all the way to 266 mil PR and still make a few bucks, yea you can say you spend money to build the ships, consider other races on how much MORE they`d take to build till that far, lets take guardian, im sure guards will spend WAY alot more to get up there. Miner? yea they spend a ton but they make it back pretty quick so it isnt too bad, Maru? lol? Terrans would spend a homo amount of money to go up there too. Virals do not usually have to deal with upkeep issues, thats the whole problem, its like an army of RE.G.Livids? Thats kinda insane if you ask me..

0.7 and 0.8 is ok for RT and ultra with the inflated build costs but not on other servers

I play 5 different races XD. And believe me, viral is not my 1st choice. I am viral only on one server,fast. And if you are able to read what I have written, I am FOR nerfing viral upkeep(imo angel&pyth should be 5-6k) in reasonable dimensions and AGAINST nerfing maru upkeep. And I don`t think terran has only 3 great ships. They have odin, zeus, thor, garuda, ryu jin(awesome ship if you know where to put it), herc, tyr, nirv. In fact terran ships are not bad at all. What about maru? Bullhead, hammerhead, pike, pyth, angel, tiger, barra, sting, all very good ships. Collective? Galleon, Barkentine, pinnace, sloop, brigantine, man-o-war, even snow is pretty decent. Or you want to tell me that they aren`t? And after all, you pay to play viral so you should get something better than miner, collective and terran. Each race has its pros and cons - viral can RE, collective has great hull:PR weapon:PR and is good moneymaker, has several ships that can capture as well, maru is the best race to make a stack and go aggressive, very easy to be played as well, guard has ruby/tourm/li, miner makes loads of cash, terran is balanced all the way... So if you take one race`s advantage you will make the game pretty stup1d and won`t balance it at all. And if you think that increasing the viral upkeep will save you from spammers, you are very very very wrong.

why not just make EVERY Re-Engineered ship weaker?

Like 15% less firepower/shield/minus 10% resistance to all?

They could change the viral`s description as

Virals are able to capture and reverse engineer other races ship although they are only able to produce copies of the originals.

Or somewhere along that line, yea virals suck, i gotten 200+ planets in 6 days after i started fighting(crappy lousy planets but nonetheless still 200)

Let them keep the original ship price but still dump that 0.7/0.8 upkeep on them. In that way it should be pretty fair?

Guard ships are the best yea DM, one thing is we make money out of misers from our population(-85% tax yo) Guardians have mostly kinetic firepower and lacceptable amount of energy fireoutput. Missele is considered a small part cause if you look at the missele weapons/PR of our L.class it kinda suck cept for one ship(forgot the name)

Anyway signing out, screw virals to the boot

DrunkenMasters, also when i was viral, i allways was i favor FOR nerving virals. Why do you think, i switched back to miner? Because now miners rock and dominate the server? for sure not..... viral was NOT challenging at all. Building a balnced stack of herc, nirv, tyr, pyth, d.angle, borrs, pikes, flysh, and lyth for examle blows away every miner.... whooha, thats chalenging.

BTW, to imply, that my suggestions are not in vavour for game balancing, but only for an egoistic boost for my own race is not only an in.sult, but also gives away much of your own motivation here.

Further, you say having 9 great ships does not allow you much of a variety for stacking? Well, then play other races, they have 1-4 great ships, what about their variety of stacking? And concerning turns, virals can (with a reasonable choice of ships) buid a reasonable fleet faster than any other race.

So basically your whining, how weak virals are is rather unbveleveable....You seem to have forgotten, that virals are "hard", and terrans are "easy".

of course you have your rights, I just wanted to see your reaction and get some support ;)

Meh, doesn`t mean I cant stick up for the other stinking viruses around :P
... anyway I dont wana loose any more reversable ships, and also think that the upkeep should not be more that 0.7 with the inflated buying prices we already have. I have a right to express my opinions on the game as much as you, wether I am a big Viral or a little germ.

{ching}, if there is someone that won`t be affected that much from nerfing virals on slow and normal it is you o.O

Go DM - I agree entirely

1) virals can`t use infected c3s c2s c1s for agri
2) viral clusters have negative agri mods while terran`s have positive (+30% for c3s for terrans -35% for c4s for virals)
3)terran has +20% mod, viral has -20%
4)terrans can uninfect viral clusters and use them for agri (using terran mods)
5)terrans can use U.Fertiles while virals can`t

considering what I have written I think terran makes 3X viral`s food production (on a c3 than viral on c4). That`s without fertiles. Not considering the fact terran has more options to make more, better clusters. And more and more pluses for terrans(agri terrans, commercial terran is out of the question now). I am saying it again, I am not talking about RT and Ultra where you can spend 500 turns(or more) saving money for your fleet. And since viral pays 4 times the price of terran ships and 6 times of maru`s, that`s a lot of money, moreover viral is not the best money maker. And there are not many players that can spend 4.2 mil per turn building ships on turn based o.O (not considering even the mineral costs). In general I am for nerfing virals and I suggested my optimal variant. And I agree with you arch, that if we can get rid of the inflation on the slower servers the upkeep can be higher, sure, no problem. But not at the way it is now, viral won`t be attractive at all if you do that. And virals can`t use all the best ships in the game because the best ships in term of hull:pr and weapon:pr are guard`s and collective`s. They can`t use livids(I wish I can have that ship after the upgrade) and lictors(not that anyone will reverse that ship o.O). And 9 ships is not a great variety imo(compared to the variety of terran ships for instance), the huge advantage of viral is that it can use more big ships with 3 types of damage than any other race .
P.S. Species, why I haven`t heard you complaining about the viral upkeep when you were viral on ultra? And arch, tax viral makes more than agri viral when the food is at reasonable pric

Hmmm ... I`m not sure what the fuss is about. Most people have been asking for maru upkeep to be changed for virals for years. 0.7/0.8 is perfectly fair given that these are 0-scanner ships [i.e. the best :-) ]

I have 2 comments however:
1: you need to remove the inflated ship build, at least outside rt. It currently already costs 4.5 mil to build 3 angels -- which is a lot on the slower servers! Yes upkeep is cheap, but cheap upkeep means you need to have lots of turns to make money back (that you`ve plowed into building `em) This is fine on rt/ultra but not other servers

Even on ultra, its relatively expensive for a viral. My 300+ (93 infra, 140k+ land) planet viral empire on ultra makes just over 4.6 mil/turn.

2) I scanned the texts and I (think) someone mentioned changing upkeep for maru`s too ... All I can do is sigh at that.

3) Terrans make 2.4x income of virals in agri btw. -- agri is optimal income for both. But I still think 0.7/0.8 is still fair -- virals still kick <>.

whoohwoo, on agri scale, terrans make roughly twice the money of virals, so still an upkeep of 10k for RE'ed Pyth would be significantly more fair than your proposed 3-4k.... AlI i want to say is, that there is realy no need for subsidizing the viral pyth/angles spams any longer, especially since virals are considered a hard race....

Btw, i never did say anything in the direction, which would require you to restart your empire, except you consider a upkeep-free pyth spam irreplacable.

nope..please enuf nerfing already..not till like two years from now..

Really, all I have to say is this.

leave the Maru alone

and the fact that you don`t care about the other servers doesn`t make your position stronger o.O
"Well i dont care, if you on slower servers cant earn money in dp, as long as other empires also cant do it, ony a direct comparison to the others is relevant."
And what about the empires that have built their empires for many months, and some even years? It is easy to say to restart like that but... That`s not ultra and RT, and if you are blind enough not to realize that it is your own problem.
P.S. Maru upkeep for virals do need to be nerfed but I am more likely to agree with evane`s idea (even tho` I think angel and pyth must have pretty much the same upkeep, somewhere in the region of 3-4k)

ok, when you are playing the role of the smart guy, compare me agri terran`s income to viral`s income? Who earns more?

whats a fair price for a RE`ed pyth?

Well it is comparable to a terran nirva, but virals make only 70% of their income. A nirv costs 175k credits and 1250k minerals (with 1000k each) makes a total cost of 1.4 million credits. 0.7 times that makes about 1 million fair building cost for pyth. That is basiaclly already realized (consider that the pyth is slightly bigger than the nirv)

On the other side, the nirv has an upkeep of 22k credits, so a fair upkeep for a RE`ed pyth should be on the range of 22k*0.7=18k credits per turn, shouldnt it?

Well i dont care, if you on slower servers cant earn money in dp, as long as other empires also cant do it, ony a direct comparison to the others is relevant.

Poor Pansy a Terran about to loose his clusters :P