Guard update

AGM94, whats bad about the fact, that hun.Xe gets pawened by strafez? Well, obviewsly it is bad for guards, but isnt the whole point of the game the fact, that each ship is weak against some types of attacking? And the Xe is already immune to 2 out of 4 types of dammage, which is a very strong ability.

And Archaeoptyrex, the Lictor does not have a single weakness, it had four plus: 1) Low kinetic hull (which is especially nice since basically all miner ships are weak against the kinetic-missile cobo ships) 2.) low chemical hull 3.) very low dammage 4.) very high mineral cost, 5). low range paired woth no defence....

With the ongoing update, i think we drive the runaway car......

A suggestion was already made someplace about K class research , go find it :/

species -- both Darck and I have commented that the new quartz has too much hull.

We`re (not really we any more, but that`s another topic) being consistent --
for the lictor`s build rate, it needed/needs at least one weakness.

xe does need a change. 25k turns is ridiculous for any ship anyway

xe can be decent occasionally but is really just a bad li that gets owned by strafez it obviously needs a change mabe changing the chemical attack to energy making it missile energy attack with li kinetic chemical. Maybe the shields could be changed as well xe is just another ship weak against minerals just like all guard ships

not sure if that will make much of a difference but apart from l class guard ships are almost all identical really so think it would be useful to have something a bit different.

As a guard im not that worried about ruby or tourm being weakened(not too much) but the other guard ships need to be decent enough to mean that guards can stack well. Not sure if the ships have reached that stage yet as ive not really had the chance to test except against miner sbs from alot below pr and there wasnt a ship that could do even 1/2 its own pr worth of damage

I have to say this... Darck is the only one actually looking at the physical numbers... he`s also the one complaining. It sounds to me like he`s got the right of it. I`ll get back to you more on how the ships work out in actual practice, i`m testing them on normal.

And if you guys listened to player feedback, you`d fix the bloody HunXe. You`re one of the few players, maraudian, who thinks the ship is USEFUL. Just because you`re wrong is no reason not to do anything about it...

Well, there are several sides of the story:
1.) wasnt the high guard base pr allways the argument why ruby and tourm must be the killer ships? To expand that argument on every ship may overdo it completely

2.) the new g class is still unworthy for guards since ruby tourms ahd huns basically do the job, so why start stacking...

3.) How incredibly poor it is to argue with miners makes the following compartison clear:
The Quarz has the following effective Hulls
against energy points 221 per pr
against kinetic 2.0 per pr
against missile 1.8 per pr
against chemical 1.8 per pr

Can somebody remind me, why the G.Lictor was nerfed when he had arround 50% shields everywhere so that he basically had around 1.8 hull points per pr everywhere? Probabably because the G.Lictor made too much dammage. But no, the lictor make full 0.2 per pr points, while the G.Quartz makes twice, i.e., 0.4 dammage per pr, that cant be it. Currently the G.Quarz exceed the very old, the old and the nerfed lictor in all aspects. To make the ship fair, of course the lictor costs 9 times the minerals and 5 times the upkeep per pr point, otherwise guards wouldnt have a chance with their high base...

And people call the lictor overpowered..... walking away shaking my head

They might not be perfect and they`ll never be perfect for everyone but they`re what was posted for a week? at least, before they were updated. DK you`ve gotta consider that tax guardian will have a base sometimes up to 10x higher than a Mineral miner for example that will compensate and so far Maraudian`s right you do seem to just have complained about everything so far. I`m not denying your right to complain and in one or two places i`ve agreed with you, just pointing out.

your still the only player with complaints / Negative feedback since its been added DK

the other feedback is " they still suck " & " yay there almost worth building "

err sorry about those hun lis down there screwy post

main thing to notice is aminers are even more screwed to hit guardians same with collectives and same with guardians hitting guardians, now if some of the mods were a bit more negative these ships would be fine

Aggressive Attack 12 G.Amethyst 253620 PR

Neutrals Ships
572 Large Strafez Runner 248.820 PR 12 turns
327 Strafez Queen 292.992 PR 17 Turns
381 F.Sword 438.912 PR 39 Turns
327 F.Broadsword 364.932 PR 33 Turns

Terran Ships
2.858 P.Apollo 188.628 PR 52 Turns
1.079 P.Odin 216.879 PR 36 Turns
143 P.Thor 232.232 PR 18 Turns
164 P.Zeus 287.820 PR 21 Turns
33 Nirvana 594.990 PR 11 turn
25 Tyr 325.875 PR 9 Turn
12 Hercules 544.824 PR 6 Turn

A.miners Ships
46 G. Livid ( r ) 575.598 PR 23 Turns
229 M. Chlorite 283.044 PR 23 turns
269 M. Calcite 457.569 PR 27 Turns
152 M. Flysch 1.099.112 PR 38
20 M. Lyth 675.600 PR 7 turns
152 A. Aragonite 765.320 PR 38 turns

Guardian
28 Tourmaline 182.280 PR 7 Turns
20 Ruby 225.360 PR 7 Turns
15 L. Garnet 535.920 PR 8 Turns
12 L. Emerald 782.832 PR 6 Turns
13 L. Topaz 913.068 PR 13 turns

Marauders
3.810 Manta 327.660 PR 48 turns
58 D. Hammerhead 209.496 PR 15 Turns
454 Pike 579.304 PR 57 Turns
191 Tiger 285.736 PR 24 Turns
92 D. Bullhead 582.912 PR 23 Turns
229 Sting 368.919 PR 29 Turns
19 Pyth 428.013 PR 7 turns
11 D. Angel 255.266 PR 4 turns

Collectives
1.303 R. Pinnace 211.086 PR 14 turns
762 H. Brigantine 154.686 PR 10 turns
254 H. Galleon 501.904 PR 22 Turns
176 H. Barkentine 571.296 PR 22 Turns

Virals
572 V. Borrelly 258.544 PR 23 Turns

now this ship is killable and has more option to kill it looks fine, now notice that its still the same ships that can kill the other g class ships and tourms rubys hun lis, that big selection of ships of yours runing rather low Maraudian =P







17 K. Hun-Li 870.808 PR 17 Turns

you realized you avoided the main issue here and went straight to build per turn? lol

Maraudian complaining? wasn't this supose to be player feedback? maybe i complain cause things are wrong? you got a problem with that cause?

Quote from my post " not that this is bad , updates need people to shoot them down for the greater good , and i also read everything you say and think it over , just like everything else people say "

Edited by Maraudian on 2007-03-04

now lets look again at the numbers notice that only 4 ships kill it from under power and that the ships that kill it in reasonable attacking power are the same ships that kill Gfluorites and now add the rubys and tourms and hun lis in to the equation, notice that

still the same ships are used to kill those, still not seing a problem? lets look at the amethyst too

Aggressive attack to kill 8 G.Quartz Thats 4 turns 288544 PR

Neutrals Ships
762 Large Strafez Runner 331.470 PR 16 Turns
436 Strafez Queen 390.656 PR 22 Turns
555 F.Sword 639.360 56 PR 56 Turns
475 F.Broadsword 530.100 PR 48 Turns

Terran Ships
1.438 P.Odin 289.038 PR 48 Turns
191 P.Thor 310.184 PR 24 Turns
218 P.Zeus 382.590 28 Turns
47 Nirvana 847.410 PR 16 Turns
33 Tyr 430.155 PR 11 Turns
17 Hercules 771.834 PR 9 Turns

A.miner Ships !!!!!!!!!!
52 G. Livid ( r ) 650.676 PR 26 Turns
305 M. Chlorite 376.980 PR 31 Turns !!!!!!!
359 M. Calcite 610.659 PR 36 Turns
208 M. Flysch 1.504.048 PR 52 Turns
26 M. Lyth 878.280 PR 9 Turns
221 A. Aragonite 1.112.735 PR 56 Turns

Guardians
33 Tourmaline 214.830 PR 9 Turns
28 Ruby 315.504 PR 10 Turns
20 L. Garnet 714.560 PR 10 Turns
16 L. Emerald 1.043.776 PR 8 turns
23 K. Hun-Li 1.178.152 PR 23 Turns
17 L. Topaz 1.194.012 PR 17 turns

Marauders
79 D. Hammerhead 285.348 PR 20 Turns
659 Pike 840.884 PR 83 Turns
254 Tiger 379.984 PR 32 Turns
122 D. Bullhead 772.992 PR 31 turns
305 Sting 491.355 PR 39 turns
26 Pyth 585.702 PR 9 Turns
15 D. Angel 348.090 PR 5 Turns

Collectives
1.554 R. Pinnace 251.748 PR 16 Turns
1.123 H. Brigantine 227.969 PR 15 turns
366 H. Galleon 723.216 PR 31 Turns
235 H. Barkentine 762.810 PR 30 turns

Virals
779 V. Borrelly 352.108 PR 32 Turns

anyone who hits a guardian on carefull pretty much deserves to lose and most likelt will ( even before update ) , normal is risky but its still easy to win on normal

turn build rate advantage is a bonus of being Guardian

Typical Guardians have extreemly high base power rating`s well over 1 million compared to others that hover below 5 to a few hundred thousand ( unless a large tax based empire like a guardian )

the only person ive heard complain about everything and i mean everything is you ( not that this is bad , updates need people to shoot them down for the greater good , and i also read everything you say and think it over , just like everything else people say ) so mayhaps we will both chill & wait for other players feedback rather than border enflament.

there is a very large selection of ships that can take out all G class and L class. they still suck , just not as badly

now lets look at the numbers a ship that has 73k power build per turn that only 4 ships kill it under power, brigs pinnaces 16k power per turn and rubys tourms that i doubt a guardian just hits another one in aggressive without knowing their fleets

what this numbers just proves is if they are this hard to kill in agressive imagine in normal and carefull meaning ships always have to have more power than the G.flu some of them close to 200% more power even with the negatives mods
IF you still think this is ok you need some glasses mauradian, now lets look at the Quartz numbers

Agressive atack to kill 4 G.Fluorites thats 4 turns 295308 PR in first round

Neutrals Ships
858 Large Strafez Runner 373.230 PR 18 Turns
490 Strafez Queen 439.040 PR 25 Turns
528 F.Sword 608.256 PR 53 Turns !!!!!
453 F.Broadsword 505.548 PR 46 Turns

Terrans Ships
1.618 P.Odin 325.218 PR 54 Turns
215 P.Thor 349.160 PR 27 Turns
245 P.Zeus 429.975 PR 31 Turns
33 Nirvana 594.990 PR 11 turns
36 Tyr 469.260 PR 12 turns
18 Hercules 817.236 9 Turns

A.miner Ships !!!!!
45 G. Livid ( r ) 563.085 PR 23 Turns
343 M. Chlorite 423.948 PR 35 Turns !!!!!!!
404 M. Calcite 687.204 PR 41 Turns
221 M. Flysch 1.598.051 PR 56 Turns O.o
22 M. Lyth 743.160 PR 8 Turns
210 A. Aragonite 1.057.350 PR 53 Turns
79 G. Lictor 4.586.108 PR 40 Turns

Guardians !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
45 G. Agate 591.075 PR 12 Turns
32 Tourmaline 208.320 PR 8 Turns
21 Ruby 236.628 PR 7 Turns
16 G. Quartz 577.088 PR 8 turns
22 L. Garnet 786.016 PR 11 Turns !!!!!!!!
18 L. Emerald 1.174.248 PR 9 turns
16 K. Hun-Li 819.584 PR 16 Turns
20 L. Topaz 1.404.720 PR 20 Turns

Marauders
5.593 Manta 480.998 PR 70 Turns
84 D. Hammerhead 303.408 PR 21 Turns
629 Pike 802.604 PR 79 Turns
286 Tiger 427.856 PR 36 Turns !!!!!!
137 D. Bullhead 868.032 PR 35 Turns
343 Sting 552.573 PR 43 Turns
20 Pyth 450.540 PR 7 Turns
16 D. Angel 371.296 PR 6 Turns

Collectives !!!!!!!
1.416 R. Pinnace 229.392 PR 15 Turns
1.031 H. Brigantine 209.293 PR 13 Turns
355 H. Galleon 701.480 PR 30 Turns !!!!!!!!
264 H. Barkentine 856.944 33 Turns !!!!!!!!!!!!
525 R. Snow 1.609.650 PR 66 Turns

Virals
840 V. Borrelly 379.680 PR 34 Turns

and for the record stack anyship and it will have its uses , G and L still suck vs agro atk/def

DarckKnight as i tested , i know very how right i am.

yeayh, we dont need a too good G n L class to replace other ships :)