yar although the posts are scrolling down a bit , would be nice to get them so majority agree / like
L Class Suggestions
G Class Suggestions
D Class Suggestions
M
MaraudianOP
Still wanting more feedback
Started by Maraudian
· 26/02/2007 · 07:30 PM
· 58 replies
· 3 reads
M
MaraudianOP
only power we have is shiplist , and we are trying to be carefull with it as to not completely change the game :/
well, well, bump up this to purpose somethings :)
Neutral Update which had been mentioned before.
http://gc.gamestotal.com/hef.cfm?f=hef_detail&hi=3198&ch=1
Terran Economy Mod, current Argiculture mod is +20%, reduce it to 10%, make Terran as the second food supplier. Increase Commerical Mod from 0% to 20% or 30%. make Terran more focus on Commerical.
Collective Cluster Mod, start form Similar Cluster 1 change th argiculture to +5%, increase 5% per cluster lv. allow Assimilated Cluster to build Argiculture, mod start with 5% increase 5% per cluster lv. make them as major food supplier, encourage ppl play Collecitve with better economy .reduce food consume 20% to suit the cybrog race as they only need some food to keep the living part.
Neutral Update which had been mentioned before.
http://gc.gamestotal.com/hef.cfm?f=hef_detail&hi=3198&ch=1
Terran Economy Mod, current Argiculture mod is +20%, reduce it to 10%, make Terran as the second food supplier. Increase Commerical Mod from 0% to 20% or 30%. make Terran more focus on Commerical.
Collective Cluster Mod, start form Similar Cluster 1 change th argiculture to +5%, increase 5% per cluster lv. allow Assimilated Cluster to build Argiculture, mod start with 5% increase 5% per cluster lv. make them as major food supplier, encourage ppl play Collecitve with better economy .reduce food consume 20% to suit the cybrog race as they only need some food to keep the living part.
well, there is (hopefully) a certain region between "good ship" and "still to suc.ky", which one needs to hit, otherwhise the act of changing the emp will be a rather academic/cosmetic task.
concerning arag, you mean here?
http://gc.gamestotal.com/hef.cfm?f=hef_detail&hi=3327&ch=100
concerning arag, you mean here?
http://gc.gamestotal.com/hef.cfm?f=hef_detail&hi=3327&ch=100
species382> i can make a even better T.Emp if i want to. even show other version to my MSN SF buddies too. i already had few of versions. i choose this version because:-
1. i dont want new Emp become a too good ship OR ELSE ppl will start complain again
2. i dont want it join the spamming team for Terran or Viral later on.
3. just make it worth to use only espcially on defesive, so to minor shield change on T.Kailuem
i got a draft on Aragonite too, i can show to u if u want to have a look :) but, i would like to see what ppl got on the change of Aragonite :P
1. i dont want new Emp become a too good ship OR ELSE ppl will start complain again
2. i dont want it join the spamming team for Terran or Viral later on.
3. just make it worth to use only espcially on defesive, so to minor shield change on T.Kailuem
i got a draft on Aragonite too, i can show to u if u want to have a look :) but, i would like to see what ppl got on the change of Aragonite :P
Hiigarans:
concerning emp,
such an emp is (in my point of view) still to succy, as long as the ship does less than .5 pr dammage without decent hull/shields, it will not be considered in a stack.
concerning miner sb,
of course a multi-dammage range 10 no retail sb would be way toooo cool ;-)
Now serious, a range 8 no retail sb is ok with me, one could even go down to range 7 with no retail, just to stop the big battle ships. Between range 7 and 8, basically only queen attacks are affected, and as long as miners have still a long range sb, thats dangerous, as it should be.
(However, as aside note, your argumentation is flawed, there is very well the posibility to crush a large stack of range 10 sb in an UW, one just needs to attack with high-dammage ships without "no defence", only the retail attack rips apart an equal pr amount of sbs...)
concerning smaller ships, a 2.5 fold build rate, or +150% increase in build rate may be a little bit overshooting the goal... What i ment is, that the bare build rate shall be 20+x pr per turn
and P.class without no defence is an absolute no-go. P class does already deal huge amount of damage (in contrast to the M equivalent) and have huge range. By removing no defence, the ship deals basically allways 1.5 its own pr dammage to the enemy ships, as it allway fires first, so whats the disadvantage?
concerning emp,
such an emp is (in my point of view) still to succy, as long as the ship does less than .5 pr dammage without decent hull/shields, it will not be considered in a stack.
concerning miner sb,
of course a multi-dammage range 10 no retail sb would be way toooo cool ;-)
Now serious, a range 8 no retail sb is ok with me, one could even go down to range 7 with no retail, just to stop the big battle ships. Between range 7 and 8, basically only queen attacks are affected, and as long as miners have still a long range sb, thats dangerous, as it should be.
(However, as aside note, your argumentation is flawed, there is very well the posibility to crush a large stack of range 10 sb in an UW, one just needs to attack with high-dammage ships without "no defence", only the retail attack rips apart an equal pr amount of sbs...)
concerning smaller ships, a 2.5 fold build rate, or +150% increase in build rate may be a little bit overshooting the goal... What i ment is, that the bare build rate shall be 20+x pr per turn
and P.class without no defence is an absolute no-go. P class does already deal huge amount of damage (in contrast to the M equivalent) and have huge range. By removing no defence, the ship deals basically allways 1.5 its own pr dammage to the enemy ships, as it allway fires first, so whats the disadvantage?
my suggestion on new T.Emp:
Name T.Empereur
Class Battleship
Weapon 2,500
Energy Damage 1,500
Kinetic Damage 1,000 (500)
Missile Damage 0
Chemical Damage 0
Hull 8,000
Range 7
Scanner rating 500
Power rating 6,332 (5,881)
Cost per unit 52,975 (49,975)
Upkeep 6,800 (5,400)
1 turn produces 4
Mineral Required
Terran Metal 100 (80)
Red Crystal 0
White Crystal 0
Rutile 0
Composite 0
Strafez Organism 0
Ship Attributes Defense Modifier
Energy Shield + 30 % (+20%)
Absorption Shield - 30 % (-60%)
ECM + 0 % (+20%)
Ionized Hull + 45 % (+20%)
*those value in (*) were the data before adjust, build will be increase IF Miner A.Aragonite increase the build rate
new shield mod for T.Kailuem which will make it become better while against V class to suit the descriptio of itself.
Energy Shield - 50%
Absorption Shield + 50 % (-50%)
ECM - 50 % (+50%)
Ionized Hull + 50 %
species382> well, u have to know the reason to me for SB range max is 8. i had discuss with afew players on MSN before. SB with range 10 is just like another Chiron. u have no way to crush it (not mention on P class, i was pointing at alll races) especially in UW with mil pr of SB in a stack. yes, ppl might say: `attack with careful.` so, if u attack with careful, there is NO POINT for SB with such range 10 as all of us use careful attack now days. most of the players agree with me too.
therefore, if u r attacking from lower pr to counter SB in aggressive especially UW event, u should at least allow the attacker to use Destoyer to kill SB. the another reason i supoort of 1 SB with range 10 is just because to show how supoerior can Miner SB be to suit the story lane of the race :) i agree if range 8 SB with no retal, but not for range 10
Name T.Empereur
Class Battleship
Weapon 2,500
Energy Damage 1,500
Kinetic Damage 1,000 (500)
Missile Damage 0
Chemical Damage 0
Hull 8,000
Range 7
Scanner rating 500
Power rating 6,332 (5,881)
Cost per unit 52,975 (49,975)
Upkeep 6,800 (5,400)
1 turn produces 4
Mineral Required
Terran Metal 100 (80)
Red Crystal 0
White Crystal 0
Rutile 0
Composite 0
Strafez Organism 0
Ship Attributes Defense Modifier
Energy Shield + 30 % (+20%)
Absorption Shield - 30 % (-60%)
ECM + 0 % (+20%)
Ionized Hull + 45 % (+20%)
*those value in (*) were the data before adjust, build will be increase IF Miner A.Aragonite increase the build rate
new shield mod for T.Kailuem which will make it become better while against V class to suit the descriptio of itself.
Energy Shield - 50%
Absorption Shield + 50 % (-50%)
ECM - 50 % (+50%)
Ionized Hull + 50 %
species382> well, u have to know the reason to me for SB range max is 8. i had discuss with afew players on MSN before. SB with range 10 is just like another Chiron. u have no way to crush it (not mention on P class, i was pointing at alll races) especially in UW with mil pr of SB in a stack. yes, ppl might say: `attack with careful.` so, if u attack with careful, there is NO POINT for SB with such range 10 as all of us use careful attack now days. most of the players agree with me too.
therefore, if u r attacking from lower pr to counter SB in aggressive especially UW event, u should at least allow the attacker to use Destoyer to kill SB. the another reason i supoort of 1 SB with range 10 is just because to show how supoerior can Miner SB be to suit the story lane of the race :) i agree if range 8 SB with no retal, but not for range 10
Maraudian> LMAO if u want to take out the missile units no defend, P class should be the one. unlike M class with the good hull, P class is hardly to survive at most of time with the no defend mod.
talking on the build rate, i want talk on both Terran n Miner: they r both a free race, long ship list, highest upkeep per pr, highest cost to the ships.
my idea is 2.5x or 150% increase on build rate, it will make those ships more worth to build when u buildding a stack with other capital ships. BUT, yes, there is always a `BUT`, other races might complain as the build rate was too high for a free race which might be a disavantage to paid race.
so, i agree the build rate which u had suggested basicly. if u increase the build rate to double or 100%, i will assume that u r mention on all the ships type (M, T n P class) on the all chassic (Cruiser, Destoyer n etc) BUT not the Battleship class or above. i m sure we will expect ppl spam even more if build rate increase on Battleships class or above.
increasing the build rate will result 1 minor or major problem later: the ships upkeep especially for newb. they never expect they cant support too much upkeep. well, i would like to suggest decrease 10% on upkeep for all type of ships, again not the Battleships class or above.
well, i had make a T.Emp thread before. it gonna take me some time to search it out. also, i was thinking on a minor shield adjust forT.Kailuem too :)
for the species382 reply about the Miner SB, i will reply on next msg.
*note the space was too small for a long reply LOL
talking on the build rate, i want talk on both Terran n Miner: they r both a free race, long ship list, highest upkeep per pr, highest cost to the ships.
my idea is 2.5x or 150% increase on build rate, it will make those ships more worth to build when u buildding a stack with other capital ships. BUT, yes, there is always a `BUT`, other races might complain as the build rate was too high for a free race which might be a disavantage to paid race.
so, i agree the build rate which u had suggested basicly. if u increase the build rate to double or 100%, i will assume that u r mention on all the ships type (M, T n P class) on the all chassic (Cruiser, Destoyer n etc) BUT not the Battleship class or above. i m sure we will expect ppl spam even more if build rate increase on Battleships class or above.
increasing the build rate will result 1 minor or major problem later: the ships upkeep especially for newb. they never expect they cant support too much upkeep. well, i would like to suggest decrease 10% on upkeep for all type of ships, again not the Battleships class or above.
well, i had make a T.Emp thread before. it gonna take me some time to search it out. also, i was thinking on a minor shield adjust forT.Kailuem too :)
for the species382 reply about the Miner SB, i will reply on next msg.
*note the space was too small for a long reply LOL
20k`ish is good.
concerning the emp, i would propose somnething rather similar to the Aragonite, a reduction of the kinetic shield to between -45 and -30 together with-200 scanner, and an increase of build rate to 6 per turn.
Well, it is then prob still not worthy to build if you have tyr niv and herc available, but it also not the goal to give terrans yet another killer ship.
concerning the emp, i would propose somnething rather similar to the Aragonite, a reduction of the kinetic shield to between -45 and -30 together with-200 scanner, and an increase of build rate to 6 per turn.
Well, it is then prob still not worthy to build if you have tyr niv and herc available, but it also not the goal to give terrans yet another killer ship.
M
MaraudianOP
as for terran the T emp is the only sucky ship , if you wanna make a suggestion on that its something that can be done
M
MaraudianOP
what would you suggest the build rate for the 900-2k pe M class be hiig ?
if its to be improved im thinking 20k`ish ( double basicly )
as for nuetrals, they are already good , alonng with a penalty of high costs / upkeep , leaving only buildrates something worth updating , anything else would ruin them me thinks ( im sure everyone would be happy if they had double the current buildrates )
if its to be improved im thinking 20k`ish ( double basicly )
as for nuetrals, they are already good , alonng with a penalty of high costs / upkeep , leaving only buildrates something worth updating , anything else would ruin them me thinks ( im sure everyone would be happy if they had double the current buildrates )
on one side, i spam lyth.... ;-)
on the other side, if you want to see less spams, then equilibrate the build rates. Well lyth (and the lictor, but latter is way to suc.ky) has a killer build rate, the flysh has a way to low but stil bearable build rate, and the rest, well, 20k builds rate is nice but not for a dreaghtnought, and the two realy good miner ships have build rates below 13k. Under this circumstances, no one should be surprised, that miner tend to spam.....
And if you reduce the range of the starbase to 8, then in return, one should give it no retail, that it can be used in a stack to defend against the usual nirv/pyth half-spams. (it would be even greater, if the starbase would be pimped such that it actually could stop nirvs/pyth by its own, that ppl would actually think twice befor attacking miners, but thats probably to much to ask for)
removing the no defence on M chloright and M calcite is in my oppinion a bad idea concerning game play, it is somehow the characteristics of long range missile ships.
"stephen would need to code" the upkeep change? well, then forget it.....
concerning the MOW, Maraudian, instead of increase the scanner rating that the mow apporaches 600pr (everytghing lower would be cosmetic), why not reducing the shields accordingly? That would make the calcuatlion what you need for what simpler. The pr-formula basically tells us, what should the dammage / hull. The scanner rating as well as the shields are modifyer to it. So reducing the effectiveness of one modifyer (shields) by another modifyer (scanner) makes the whole gameplay less transparent=attractive.
on the other side, if you want to see less spams, then equilibrate the build rates. Well lyth (and the lictor, but latter is way to suc.ky) has a killer build rate, the flysh has a way to low but stil bearable build rate, and the rest, well, 20k builds rate is nice but not for a dreaghtnought, and the two realy good miner ships have build rates below 13k. Under this circumstances, no one should be surprised, that miner tend to spam.....
And if you reduce the range of the starbase to 8, then in return, one should give it no retail, that it can be used in a stack to defend against the usual nirv/pyth half-spams. (it would be even greater, if the starbase would be pimped such that it actually could stop nirvs/pyth by its own, that ppl would actually think twice befor attacking miners, but thats probably to much to ask for)
removing the no defence on M chloright and M calcite is in my oppinion a bad idea concerning game play, it is somehow the characteristics of long range missile ships.
"stephen would need to code" the upkeep change? well, then forget it.....
concerning the MOW, Maraudian, instead of increase the scanner rating that the mow apporaches 600pr (everytghing lower would be cosmetic), why not reducing the shields accordingly? That would make the calcuatlion what you need for what simpler. The pr-formula basically tells us, what should the dammage / hull. The scanner rating as well as the shields are modifyer to it. So reducing the effectiveness of one modifyer (shields) by another modifyer (scanner) makes the whole gameplay less transparent=attractive.
Maraudian> Lyth dont need range improved, prehaps new shield mod will good enough. Miner had spam enough Flysch, no one wish to see Lyth + Flysch spam later :p
about the 3 Miner SB, i still looking forward that range can be low down to max 8 but only 1 SB with range 10.
agree on the MOW, it suk and overpowered.
also, looking forward on Neutral ships update, Terran update (ecnomy n ships)
about the 3 Miner SB, i still looking forward that range can be low down to max 8 but only 1 SB with range 10.
agree on the MOW, it suk and overpowered.
also, looking forward on Neutral ships update, Terran update (ecnomy n ships)
Z
Zenith
Lyth and arag need a bit of improving...
And build rates have always been a sticking point with the free races.
And build rates have always been a sticking point with the free races.
M
MaraudianOP
now my suggestion ages ago that came along with G class becoming guardian , was D class becoming Dark Marauder , this would have resulted in viral becoming balanced, A miner and Marauder having a ship class free to update without improving viral
i agree with A arog kinetic shield being lowered about 50% at the least
M lyth range increase isnt a bag idea like but still im a little 50/50 with giving A miner good spam ships when they already have a fair amount, insane income ect
i agree with A arog kinetic shield being lowered about 50% at the least
M lyth range increase isnt a bag idea like but still im a little 50/50 with giving A miner good spam ships when they already have a fair amount, insane income ect
M
MaraudianOP
ok just to save some time , although we can alter upkeep i think , eternus has the buttons not me , it would be for both race ( marauder and viral ) and marauder dont need punishing , anything other than that , stephen would need to code it , goodluck with that
as for A miner ships , i was thinking removal of no defence on M chloright and M calcite would be an interesting / usefull addition
A miner is a defencive race after all... so every time i look at high neg shields and no defence on them i always flinch
now the Mow , it is a nice ship , but too nice , i think increasing its power rating to 500-600 pr and removing the 10% ion shield would be nice
this will have alot of results for each race though ( alot more ships can take them on , including a few nuetral / special )
as for A miner ships , i was thinking removal of no defence on M chloright and M calcite would be an interesting / usefull addition
A miner is a defencive race after all... so every time i look at high neg shields and no defence on them i always flinch
now the Mow , it is a nice ship , but too nice , i think increasing its power rating to 500-600 pr and removing the 10% ion shield would be nice
this will have alot of results for each race though ( alot more ships can take them on , including a few nuetral / special )
My Suggestion take away Maru ship from Viral or give them a bigger upkeep for Viral
A.miner... A.Aragonite Dreadnought needs more Kentic Energy Shield... it is way to weak so i never use it in battle... it gets wiped out half the time from my experience as an A.miner
also... this is a big debatable thing... M.Lyth Dreadnought. give it range of 7 to match all other big Missile ships like D.Angel & Tyr. & this will make a better counter to the Ruby spam A.miner get.
D.Angel take away Kentic attack power.... this will enable Runner to actually do damage... D.Angel is a high power spam ship. Guard got there ships to handle the D.Angel. Terran got there Jugg. A.miner got nothing but the starbases...
420BadWolf`s fleet
Hercules Juggernaught 318 175 143
Pyth Battleship 450 450 0
Nirvana Dreadnought 500 500 0
D.Angel Battleship 370 370 0
G.Livid (r) Fighter 42 42 0
Large Strafez Fodder 89 89 0
Strafez Queen 20 20 0
C.Taurus Destroyer 10 10 0
C.Cancer Cruiser 8 8 0
Light Corvette Corvette 400 400 0
A.miner dont defend well to spam unless hit from under power like this one... & my fleet cost me a ton to build & alot of time...
A.miner need a fast build rate of of 1.5x to 2.0x with most of there little ships
i would also recommend A.miner be give more diveristy in ship shields.. A.miner ships are all weak to Energy attack... other miner weakness would be Missile & Chemical but those are less to worry about
ships like Pyth Nirvana Pike that are Multi-weaponed really hurt an A.miner fleet cause of the Kentic & Energy Combo they have which A.miner has a Natural Energy weakness & well the next would be the Kentic weakness
i`ve also got D class spammed before & it proved another weakness... i mean like this person was carrying only Missile ships.. a Maru.. but it just proves our other weakness
Collective Gallon & R.Sloop A.miner too
A.miner... A.Aragonite Dreadnought needs more Kentic Energy Shield... it is way to weak so i never use it in battle... it gets wiped out half the time from my experience as an A.miner
also... this is a big debatable thing... M.Lyth Dreadnought. give it range of 7 to match all other big Missile ships like D.Angel & Tyr. & this will make a better counter to the Ruby spam A.miner get.
D.Angel take away Kentic attack power.... this will enable Runner to actually do damage... D.Angel is a high power spam ship. Guard got there ships to handle the D.Angel. Terran got there Jugg. A.miner got nothing but the starbases...
420BadWolf`s fleet
Hercules Juggernaught 318 175 143
Pyth Battleship 450 450 0
Nirvana Dreadnought 500 500 0
D.Angel Battleship 370 370 0
G.Livid (r) Fighter 42 42 0
Large Strafez Fodder 89 89 0
Strafez Queen 20 20 0
C.Taurus Destroyer 10 10 0
C.Cancer Cruiser 8 8 0
Light Corvette Corvette 400 400 0
A.miner dont defend well to spam unless hit from under power like this one... & my fleet cost me a ton to build & alot of time...
A.miner need a fast build rate of of 1.5x to 2.0x with most of there little ships
i would also recommend A.miner be give more diveristy in ship shields.. A.miner ships are all weak to Energy attack... other miner weakness would be Missile & Chemical but those are less to worry about
ships like Pyth Nirvana Pike that are Multi-weaponed really hurt an A.miner fleet cause of the Kentic & Energy Combo they have which A.miner has a Natural Energy weakness & well the next would be the Kentic weakness
i`ve also got D class spammed before & it proved another weakness... i mean like this person was carrying only Missile ships.. a Maru.. but it just proves our other weakness
Collective Gallon & R.Sloop A.miner too
my suggestions for the lictor:
Get rid of it altogether. If the ship shall be a Re`d guard ship, call it G.Corundum Destroyer (r), give him the stats of the former plus transform 2k scanner rating into damage.
my suggestions for the MOW: do either or
- decrease build rate to 6
- decrease all shields by 50%
- decrease the hull by 50%
- remove it completely
some other gameplay improvements which would be realy nice, however are rather unrealistic due to the protest of certain fractions....
1.) increase upkeep of Re`d marauder ships to at least(!) .5 per pr
2.) now realy increase the viral upkeep, i am not joking.
3.a) increase build rate of M. and A. ships smaller than the flysch by 40%
or
3b.) Interchange Kryos ECM and Ionized Hull shield modifier (all major ships use missiles, so whats the point)
4.) introduce a low-buildrate neutral range 10 missile ship comparable to the M.Calcite. This allows every race to attack every ship of every other race.
5.) did i mention the viral upkeep problem?
Get rid of it altogether. If the ship shall be a Re`d guard ship, call it G.Corundum Destroyer (r), give him the stats of the former plus transform 2k scanner rating into damage.
my suggestions for the MOW: do either or
- decrease build rate to 6
- decrease all shields by 50%
- decrease the hull by 50%
- remove it completely
some other gameplay improvements which would be realy nice, however are rather unrealistic due to the protest of certain fractions....
1.) increase upkeep of Re`d marauder ships to at least(!) .5 per pr
2.) now realy increase the viral upkeep, i am not joking.
3.a) increase build rate of M. and A. ships smaller than the flysch by 40%
or
3b.) Interchange Kryos ECM and Ionized Hull shield modifier (all major ships use missiles, so whats the point)
4.) introduce a low-buildrate neutral range 10 missile ship comparable to the M.Calcite. This allows every race to attack every ship of every other race.
5.) did i mention the viral upkeep problem?
The Lictor is not slightly weaker than the herc, the lictor is a hell of a lot weaker than the herc.
The power of the shield modifiyers grow inversely. The lictors 50% missile shields are nice, that it effectively gives him twice the hull against missile. The 80% shield of the herc gives him 5 times the hull. Well, the lictor dont has such a fragility vs chemical as the herc, but anyway, it also get killed by strafez (and Tyrs, and D.Angles and Hercs and Nirvs and Pyth, and ....)
The power of the shield modifiyers grow inversely. The lictors 50% missile shields are nice, that it effectively gives him twice the hull against missile. The 80% shield of the herc gives him 5 times the hull. Well, the lictor dont has such a fragility vs chemical as the herc, but anyway, it also get killed by strafez (and Tyrs, and D.Angles and Hercs and Nirvs and Pyth, and ....)
S
Seifer
guards that doesnt start out stripmining is not smart....hey!! i aint not smart! :/
I think that..... The Lictor should be at least slightly weaker than the Herc, this will make it usefull >_<
And livid should be more....... usefull =P lmao
Thats about all I got... I`m not one for ship tweaking.. my ideas suck.
And livid should be more....... usefull =P lmao
Thats about all I got... I`m not one for ship tweaking.. my ideas suck.
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