Proposed Lyth Update

no Rafale.
lictor <-> too much hull (taking mods into count).
lakko/hoko <-> too much range

thinks lyth should not get a range increase and a mod decrease, as it will make it more attacking bias

the lictor (range 5) have too much range you mean Arch? There arent much shorter then that right?

as for the starbases i think that fits the defensive concept of aminers

ah, excuse me Drunken, your point was wrongly interpreted by me. Yes nirv, tyr herc do well at equal pr. Apologies.
However, my point about destroyers stands. Dropping range to 7/8 doesn`t affect nirv tyr herc capabilites.

bah ... DrunkenMasters and species -- this is what you don`t get.
losing on careful to capital ships means absolutely nothing! Who cares if spam wins. Of course spam wins! That doesnt make the game interesting at all. When was the last time you impressed someone with a nirv tyr herc, or a flysch spam or a ruby hunli tourm, or a pyth angel. *yawns*

Fast build ships (and 50, 60k/turn is fast.) should not be stronger than destroyers!
That was why the old chiron was overpowered and calls for its range down to 7. Remember all the hullabaloo about that it`s the same!

hercs, tyrs, nirvs, angels, pyths, lyths, flysch, argo, all get largely raped by most high range low build ships (strafez included)
Sure, several of those are strong vs. individual attack types (e.g. thors not so good vs herc, swords poor vs flysch etc). But by and large, you should agree that destroyers are meant to be the strongest ships around should you be able to have the turns and effort to build them.

that`s why the lictor, lakko, hoko are not well-thought out ships. Too much hull/range respectively for fast build means unfairness and general lack of thought.

but +1 range of lyth will be cool, maybe decrease one mod and part of the upkeep as well (since you are making lyth invincible to runners)

I will try have a mess around with it a bit later trying to look at the guard changes atm

+1 is cool, but miner starbases are not uber at all, I tested them in combat several times and they were raped all the times(balanced VS 3 capitol ships spam on careful and you will understand that they are not that useful). And both miner starbases are pretty fragile to hercs(considering herc is one of most commonly used ships for high pr that makes them even more not-uber).

maybe give it a chemical shield of -10 or -20% it will still beat runners on defense because of range but could lose on attack depending on stance etc

it would also make it more even against k class which was hiigs worry

omg, i forgot to test with K class. i just found out that Lyth with range 7 will own K class on both offensive n defensive. i gonna think again on the range 7 Lyth.

so, dont count me on agree for now.

well, a range 7 lyth would be realy nice. And i dont 'think, it would be overpowered, one should consider, that the lyth has only .5 damage per pr, meaning that it probably would still loose a defence against Tyr & co on equal pr footings, as long as latter dont attack on aggressive....

And the hilarious upkeep prevents the over-usage of Lyth by virals.

Regarding starbases, Loofain, what is bad about that miners have now a chance against an attack with destroyers? Since the destroyer/cruiser of miner have either tiny build rates or tiny dammage, they are not realy a match. On the other side the starbases loose against most of the high-pr ships as long as they dont attack aggressively, and basically against every other ship, if attacked on carefull. I would not rate such a ship "ueber". And concering big spams of sb`s, they still dont have "no retail", so even with the big range, they are not invincible

Arch> that`s y i suggest tweak hull or shield. anyway, SB should be able to kill Runner since most of the SB were range 7.

rofl, i put my RT empire into vmode just to test out all the balance :)

I object not because new lyth would be particularly good, but giving miners 5 fast build decent ships all immune to runners attacking
(flysch, argo, new lyth, new lakko and new hoko) -- Miners are getting too many benefits relative to other races :S

ok. i just test it out. range 7 wont be a big problem.

1. slightly tweak abit on the shield. i still have no idea which shield should tweak.

2. as a missile ships with higher range, should it less hull abit? i mean just abit, maybe 1k - 2.5k less, it will bring down the pr too.

3. of course, u can only select either idea 1 or 2. u cant have them both or else it will kill Lyth too much.

4. reduce some upkeep if idea 3 had been done.

Lictor, i consider it as G class. well, i had put the suggestion on the G class thread.

SB, i m lazy to repeat what i had said, my point was mainly on range LOL let`s see what other wish to point out.

"Aspha Miners ships are more defensive in nature."

>__< More hull maybe, more range ?

err +1 ..