GC Ship Update next steps

E EternusOP

OP 11/02/2007 · 08:44 AM #1

These are the current suggestions with regards to the next (and hopefully last) ship rebalancing, they`re taken from the PMs and forum posts and suggestions people have made. Please note at the moment i can`t do anything about Viral ship upkeep its still being looked at

Uploaded Changes

H Barkentine , small missile damage added 400 at the least , chop off ionized hull shielding

R snow , stats increased to 500 energy, 600 kinetic and extra 10% shielding added to ionised

H.Brigantine , Chem dmg +50 ( need ) ( to beat herc and k class on agro )

H Man o War , - fixed and uploaded, i`ve yet to hear major complaints now trying to get collectives existing to be able to use them

A hoko -200 scanner rating ECM Shield + 20%

A.Kryo - 2,000 scanner rating -500 energy damage + 1500 kinetic damage +5% energy shield +5% ionized shield

M.Lakko -500 scanner +10% energy shield +10% ionized shield +1k hull

These suggestions most asked seem to agree on
M epidote , No retal

H galleon returned to its normal stats , double its ship build ( to 14 )

G lictor extra 10% absorb shield -50% Chem shield

L Class scanners dropping

Improvement of D. Bullhead

I`ve probably missed somethings but its nearing 1am and i`m knackered

Opinions? Try to keep them constructive

And i`m trying to deal so that all the ships work and are balanced and such but its understandanly a long and daunting task, i`d appreciate your patience and would advise you not to change anything until we`ve settled.

Many thanks to all the people who have helped test and give feedback

Edited by Eternus on 2007-02-12

D DrKsTgUaRdIaN

12/02/2007 · 02:57 AM #72

we need G and L class upgraded for guard now, so that inturn we can become a stacking race again

4 420Outlaw

12/02/2007 · 02:53 AM #71

so when the bor getting 100 range then :p

D Donercrew

12/02/2007 · 02:04 AM #70

i dont understand.. all you seem to change quite often is the mods.. and that quite frankly doesnt do enough to make a ship balanced... but i can see now some scanner rating being taken off.. thats a better start than "balancing" mods... mods dont get into affect until 75-80%.. then you start seeing ships kick but.. why not just focus on making ships that are defensive kill stuff better on defense.. not just live longer with those menial mod incresements. just a thought

D DarckKnight

12/02/2007 · 01:53 AM #69

errr so the new collectives get the new ships already? what about the old ones?

D DarckKnight

12/02/2007 · 01:48 AM #68

well loof your forgeting collectives ain't got anything else dreadnaughts jugs so the ships we have have to be able to build fast

E EvilLoof

12/02/2007 · 12:47 AM #67

you are completely biased Zenith....
makes no sense that a ship as sloop builds more than twice as fast as garudas, epidotes etc...a build rate equal to those fine, not one thats higher

Z Zenith

12/02/2007 · 12:02 AM #66

Nah, pinnace and sloop are fine. Although they`re good on offense, any competent person can kill them easily when they`re attacking.

And it`s less of a pain when you do lose all of them. It happens a lot, with nirvs and pyths flying around.

A armenia4ever

11/02/2007 · 11:56 PM #65

upgrade miner starbases.. they suck badly... give them a good weapon to pr ratio

E EvilLoof

11/02/2007 · 11:37 PM #64

Collective R.Pinnace Corvette 2,100 74 200 200 4 162
Collective H.Brigantine Frigate 2,440 90 200 300 5 203
Collective R.Sloop Frigate 6,547 177 550 750 7 558
Collective H.Galleon Destroyer 20,195 417 900 4,500 9 1,976
Collective R.Schooner Destroyer 17,120 454 600 3,000 9 2,036
Collective R.Snow Cruiser 22,585 881 500 3,500 8 3,066
Collective H.Barkentine Cruiser 27,360 949 900 5,000 8 3,246
Collective H.Man-O-War Starbase 4,165 176 125 1,200 3 402

this is your shipyard when you`ve reaserched everything But the Barkentine

E EvilLoof

11/02/2007 · 11:23 PM #63

the build rate on pinnace and sloop have been put up way too much imo.
when you research galleon you get brigantine and not galleon

Z Zenith

11/02/2007 · 11:10 PM #62

What I`d like is some NO RETAL. That is my only big thing.

E EvilAbadayos

11/02/2007 · 11:02 PM #61

the range is 3 IIRC.

so most ships get first shot then it takes its turn

could be fun to stop some spams mixed with c class and fodder leads

Z Zenith

11/02/2007 · 10:40 PM #60

My collective input:

Well, build rates are excellent. I`m very, very happy

I still think we need some no retal ships. Bark is ok, maybe more missile dmg, take away chem shield.

The small missile/chem damage brigantine? Yeah, a bit more dmg, a bit more range... would be good. And maybe some better shields.

Snow is ok, like the schooner, a ship I won`t use very often.

Man o war... I`m very happy with the changes. Fair, and not crazy to kill. What is the range on them, though?

It`s ok, a big fodder. Keep it.

D DrKsTgUaRdIaN

11/02/2007 · 10:35 PM #59

kicks augustini in the head and pats DK on the back

D DrunkenMasters

11/02/2007 · 10:16 PM #58

eternus, your suggestion about miner bases is minor one with capitol `M`. Miner starbases need major upgrade, not minor one. Compare the nerfed man-o-war and chiron to the so called "updated" miner starbases... They are not even close to equal. Miners should be able to stack at least on defense. To make it happen make their starbases with different mods, different ot fodders as well. So a decent miner can shift his top stacks and make things happen. I am talking about modifiers like 90%for 2 of the attacks and -20-30% for the other 2. So that way it will be fun defending with miners. And think about the bases` attack. It is rediculous- 300 damage 9.3k PR for lakko, 600 dmg for 4.6k PR for hokko and 5k dmg for 83k PR for kryo? Come on, that is funny, chiron does 8k damage for 18k PR, more than 83k kryo. Man-o-war is a lot better too. So there are two ways to make miner better defending race:
1) make their bases with 1:2.5-3 weapon:pr ratio
2) make great defensive modifiers for them as I wrote above, the second way will make miners think and stack... Think about it

S species382

11/02/2007 · 10:02 PM #57

Even so it is good that you consider an upgrate of the miner starbases, the proposal is far from beeing sufficient, since even with some fewer scanner, they still dont make any dammage at all. On the other side, strafez fodder is a better hit catcher, so the starbases still dont have any purpose for miners. The ability to sustain much too few damage is also nearly unmodifyed by your cosmetic modifications of the shields.

Compare the dammage to other starbases: the viral starbase has a 0.5 damage/pr ratio (with good shields), the new collective starbase has a 0.25damage/pr ratio (with great shields), and the miner starbases have even with the proposed reduced scanner rating a >0.2 (Hoko), 0.05 (Lakko) and respectively ~0.1 (Kryo) damage per pr-point ratio (with decent shields).

Why not introdiuce a general thumbs rule, that starbases should have at least approx 0.25 dammage/pr?

And dont touch neutral ships, they are fine.

Furthermore, to nerf virals even more, one could think, to move their dammage entirely to chemical. Then every race has 3 neutral ships to block them, so spamming will be futile ;-)

D DarckKnight

11/02/2007 · 07:54 PM #56

lol @ poeple saying that by the borr having 8 range people will start spaming it on carefull lmao news flash to most of you guys it had 9 range and it was spamed by almost every viral player i know, if it goes back to 9 range hull has to go down and collectives marus and amminers need 10 range missile ship to be bale to kill it in agressive

lyth 7 range seems fine

What about the neutrals???
Nice would be increased build rate on geminis and aries by a litle bit and do something about that light frigate some of those mods could be taken away 3 -20% its a bit too much, the ship almost useless now

the changes to g and l class have to be well tought of or guards will be the new virals but the good thing is they can't set off uw =P

A Augustini

11/02/2007 · 07:47 PM #55

I think that pWn3dN3wb13 is right in that Ruby and Tourmaline needs to be nerfed a bit and all the other Guard ships need to be "upgraded" a bit, as it is now, there really isn`t much of a challenge to be victorius on the battlefield as Guardian, just build Ruby, Hun-Li and Tourmaline in equal pr stacks and spam everyone and win all battles on close to even pr... it`s pretty much unbeatable... what`s the fun in that ? I would like the Guardians to be a stacking race that can use all the ships in a good way, as it is now, there really isn`t any idea in trying to do that !

A archaeoptyrex

11/02/2007 · 07:30 PM #54

Ok as a long-term maru, and it being my fave race ... I`d like to suggest:

no retal on barracuda? (I`m not too bothered about this)

D Hammerhead: Current pr is 1666 and has scanner of 300!! That`s a higher scanner:pr than the L emerald!
should be 1600 hull (NOT 600!!)
kinetic 600, Missile 800 (not 300,400).

Similarly for the D Bullhead: 5,706 pr at the moment (and a ludicrous 800 scanner lol)
As a cruiser it should have decent hull and less attack for D class.
6.5k hull, and 1000 kin, 1600 missile dam (so that`s still less than 0.5 attack:pr)

Epidote comment: Only energy ship (non guard) that has no retal should be pike (pike has terrible hull) pikes currently can handle garudas and epis at low pr for marus but add in no retal and the newbie garuda/epidote players will be too strong. There was a reason they did not have no retal.

chlorites to range 10 are good

Guard.
So, I`ve asked around a little with the older guards. The mods are prob alright on G/L class. Only a small increase in attack:pr is necessary (10-15%), done through a scanner reduction. If you get rid of too much scanner then Guardians will become god-like (again)

B BrumenCMDC

11/02/2007 · 07:24 PM #53

To me, any change that`s likely to make players stack instead of spam is worth considering. Another factor that`ll increase my interest is giving a fair chance of success in battle to all races.
So far, I think this update is good as far as Collectives are concerned.
But I`d bet a lot on Miners spamming Lictors instead of or in addition to Flysch. It would take more to actually make them stack. And I don`t blame them Miner spammers, that`s the only option they have, even now.
Next step should be Guardian ships. I dropped my Guard empire on RT because it was boring to just use 3 ships on a regular basis, and more or less randomly add others.
I think Terran ships are fine the way they are.
And, of course, as a Viral on Fast, I`m a little worried about what will happen to my Borellys. It seems they became sensitive to many ships they were until now immune to. Probably too many (Terrans alone used to own Bors in attack with a choice of 2 ships, that now makes at least 4. And in defense, they`ll also have many more options). Did you guys ever considered giving every race a range 10 missile ship instead of reducing Bor`s range to 8?
Obviously, we need to experiment a lot with the new deal, and it would be nice to know that there`ll be a follow-up and some tweaking will occur.

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