Stemcells

At the same time, if we hold off inventing new cures. If we let the diseases of this world run their course there are two positive outcomes.

1. There will be a major decline in human population, less resources will be used, and the earth will be able to rebuild itself.

2. The viruses will have no need for positive genetic mutations. The weak mutations will survive just as well as the strong, and the whole of the virus will begin to weaken, just as the modern human is physically weaker than our ancestors, so the virus will be weaker. THEN if we have managed to re-route our planets destruction, we should look into cures. An advanced cure for an old, obsolete sickness is a better cure, than on a sickness that will just come back stronger than ever.

I have not once argued that stemcells are wrong. I have argued that the worldwide debates on such topics as this are ignorant. The world needs to wake up and take a good look around.

People say, the world isnt in that bad of shape, the environment can take one more for the team. Let me give you a real world picture of what kind of shape the world is in.

I live in Florida. A few miles from one of the most popular beaches in the world. Every day people swim in this water, fish from the pier, go boating, ect. ect. ect.

These people get ready to eat, or need to wash their hands for some reason. NOONE is going to think twice before just washing their hands off in the ocean.

Say you came to the beach, right down the road from my house. And you had a bucket. Now as.sume that you put the bucket into the water and pulled it up. You now have a bucket full of water right?

Now pour that water back into the ocean. Guess what. By law, you have just polluted the water. THAT IS HOW TOXIC THE WATER IS.

Now. Noone is going to arrest you for it, that would be pretty not-smart. But legally, any substance with a certain amount of toxic chemicals in it cannot be put into the water because it is considered pollution.

*t

The question isnt about taking 30 years to create an army of hitlers, but no doubt something like this would be used in warfare, just as every other invention has been. I am not saying that stemcell reasearch is un ethical. I am merely saying that there are more important issues, and that topics such as this should not be an issue.

What I said was not an exaggeration, and you yourself proved it. You said that there had not been a change in the atmosphere for 1/3 of the time we`ve been monitoring it. And that it was no big deal. Therein lies the problem. People like yourself dont believe it is a problem. Despite the fact that our own destruction is only a couple generations away, most people still dont want to recognize it. People say its no big deal.

The fact isnt that I`m against curing diseases either, but if everyone is cured, and there are no more diseases, there will be more people. The planet will be strained even more. It will then find better ways to get rid of us. Say we cure these things. In 20 years, more deadly viruses will pop up. 20 years ago, noone even knew what the hell AIDS was. And look now. 20 years ago, noone was afraid of getting all these diseases that we are now learning about.

Viruses have a short lifespan, only a few hours. That means that there are only a few hours between generations. That makes for more mutations in less time. for every few millions of failed mutations, one works, and the viruse adapts. That is why viruses keep coming back. That is why they cannot be eradicated. If stem cell reasearch finds a cure today. That cure will have been rendered useless in 20 - 40 years.

Unfortunately in 20 - 40 years, we wont have to worry aobut all of that. This planet will be so close to death, that we cannot reverse it. People say that its not a big deal because it can still be fixed. Once we cannot fix it, and we are going to become extinct. Then will it be a big deal?

so any opinions after that :P

continued again

It`s like this, I can play guitar for hours, but does not mean I would be interested in drawing for hours or in playing the tuba for hours. Same for scientists, they would probibly research another aspect of biology close to stemcell research instead if told to stop stemcell research.

As for new fuels let the people who like it do it, you can`t force people to stop one thing and do another...thats called fascism :P Instead let them carry on doing stemcell research. Who knows...maybe an animal of some sort will have a DNA structure which could save your life...or on the larger scale a gene which will help in an alternative fuel :P (decompose toxins or something of a fuel or something ).

carried on

Both ways involve a different organisms cell, chromosones and DNA exhisting in another one. This is like saying you mix people by giving em a kindey or blood, and I find to fuse two different people`s DNA morally wrong but that isn`t what occurs.

You talk of finding new fuels? I totally agree. It is an over-exegaration stating that the future generations will not be able to breathe air without being harmed extensively. Yes the carbon dioxide gases have been rising, BUT the answer is actually no. If you take the last 25 years then there has been an increase. If you pay closer attention you will realize no change in the atmospheric gas % has changed since 1998. Thats 8/25 years with no change, thats 1/3 of the time with no change. One of the reasons for the rapid increase was probably due to the older technology getting more accurate and accurate.in determing amount of carbon dioxide in the air. As for te oxygen I do not know, but I do know that you don`t die from lack of oxygen in a cealed room, you die from the carbon dioxide since it is a deadly gas if inhaled in large quantities.

Let`s presume all biologistss stop stemcell research. This does not neccesarily imply that they would focus on other aspects of science instead such as finding alternative fuels. I do admit we require new fuels especially since walking on the footpath actually decreases our life expectancy. The problem is people don`t notice that chemicals such as sodium fluoride have been tested to prove no benifit for teeth and actually toxic (alters chemical reastions in brain in excessive quantitites - why they say don`t brush teeth more than 3 times a day). Even IF sodium floride turns out to be not harmfull, there are many toxic substances damaging us.

Back to the scientists. Biologists that like DNA and the study of how organisms operate will probably not move onto finding bio-organic fuels.

the guy from sheep country takes the stand for Stemcells
BTW I`m not sure if this is what is meant by stemcell research since i never got the meaning of it .

It ain`t really cloning, its only one piece of genetic information which is missing in others. They dont grow it so another being will form. To make an army of Hitlers will take 30 year, they can`t speed up the maturing process, and I`m sure before they learn how to speed it up they would learn how to slow aging down.You can`t make an army of 30year old Hitlers in 2 weeks, it will take 30 years to make em. Also if they choose to grow it up into a being the being will resemble nothing to you character wise. Also due to the fact that over years mitosis doesn`t create perfect identical cells the only way to clone hitler who would live long enough to be 30 would be to find a piece of frozen ambilical cord from him .

Lets take insulin for example, it can now be made by bacteria producing insulin instead of slaughtering cows to obtain insulin. Now they are trying to use spider silk/web in bacteria to produce a substance which is stronger then steel in comparison to its mass. This can be used instead of metals in some cases because its lighter and stronger.

You say nature means for some of us to die. I agree. You fail to realize that there are such things as hospitals. If someone you knew got ill, I`m sure you wouldn`t hesitate to send them to use anti-biotics if it was serious, same for sending an old man to the hospital for heart surgery. Now how are people who need substances such as insulin different from people needing medication and surgery? Sure let us all die out. Even before civilized humans a caveman was found with a permanatly broken shoulder so he/she could not hunt, it was found the creature survived because others cared for it and didnt leave them to die. I cannot find a difference between a kindey transplant or blood transfer/donating and stem cell research.

You didnt post an almost essay like responce like me and canny......

I seriously seriously seriously hate not-smart topics. Lets argue about important stuff before we move on to this.

What about me?

Awesome response Hippie... my hat goes off to you... then again w/ a name like Hippie i knew you`d understand...

c`mere you little tree hugger, *gives Hippie a noogie...

<-- self proclaimed tree hugger as well, lol

You people who want everything now are going to sacrifice your childrens happiness in the future, for your happiness now. What do you tell your children when they ask why they cant go outside? What will you tell them when they ask why they cant breathe the air outside. What will your children have to say to you when you tell them that you were too selfish to do anything about it. When you tell your children that You cared more about not getting a disease than you did about their life and their happiness.

Life on earth has gotten to a point where we cannot develop further without changing our way of life entirely. And if we keep expending resources at this rate, we wont see the end of the world, but our children will. Our grandchildren will.

There is a theory that everything in nature has a natural response and will do anything to save their species.

Apparently Humans have lost that. We are the engineers of our own fate. And its looking pretty grim. The fact that topics like this exist disgust me.

How aobut we change the topic from "Who thinks we should kill our planet" To "How should we go about fixing the hole we`ve dug ourselves"

At times I am truly sad to have to say that I am a member of the human race.

Canny. If anyone was to take my side on this. I`m glad it was you bro.

Stem cells come from cloning. Cloning is, in my opinion, wrong. You say it could save countless lives, I say it could destroy ten times that. The governments of the world would take obvious advantage of this and create an artificial army. Yeah, thats great, give all the would be hitlers of this world their own super armies.

You say it would make the human race stronger, we`re already to strong to be housed by our native planet. Everyone is worried about curing diseases. The curing of diseases is what got us here in the first place. Nature purposefully kills off a percentage of the population of EVERYTHING to ensure the long term survival of its inhabitants. Disease, natural disasters, Changes in the climate. It all ties in. Why should we fund reasearch to save humanity in the short run, rather than fund reasearch to save EVERYTHING in the LONG TERM.

You are a selfish group of people to believe this. The utopia like sci fi culture that scientists are rushing headlong into is not gonna happen. Disease will never be cured. Humanity will never live in peace. You need to have a symbiant relationship with the earth in order to attempt to survive. Unfortunately we have lost this.
In creating your utopia you will destroy the earth. How about the governments of the world put things such as this aside and begin to think realisticly.

Instead of this crab, lets fund alternative power sources for the world. Dont slowly merge out fossil fuels, get rid of it within the course of a few years, we dont have the time for the slow approach. Lets put funding into the restoration of the ozone, so that our children and our grandchildren can look at the sky without melting their frikin eyes out! Lets fund the restoration of the rainforest, where thousands of animals are killed each day that could have HAD the cure for what you`re trying get rid of.

CaNnAbIsViLLe I totaly understand where your coming man, Me my self ive grown up with people all my life who have always been opinionative and have kept an open mind on things. Most people cant grasp this there very narrow and cant understand the many concepts there are.

I totaly understand where your coming from mate. I respect it too.

Personally stemcell research isn`t needed at all. They`re already a way 2 cure all diseases, but the government doesn`t want 2 tell people because it would put many people out of a job. Hhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmm, life or jobs, hard coice, NOT! I mean the people who would be out of a job like, already have degrees, they can get different jobs. Any1 agree?

O_O *looks at canabisville

finally, someone that thinks like i do about the human race...i thunk i was alone :P see, the terrorists have the right idea after all...death to all!!

(JK about the terrorist part...)

Killa, i`m glad man... personally i like to read a lot... i like to be informed about a certain subject before i take my stand on it... a lot of people don`t realize that every choice you make in life sys "something" about who you are as a person... i try to remind myself before i make any decision in life to ask myself this question... "Does this action speak of who i am in the grandest sense of the word! If i were to be judged for this single action would i be happy with what it speaks of me!" Don`t get me worng, i make a lot of decisions in the heat of the moment but not nearly as many as before i started to ask myself this question... and i find that i am a much happier person with whom i am than before i understood that you are who you`ve been and acted like for your whole life, not just your last action which is the one most people remember.

lmao @ mallow... how do you know i haven`t lost anyone to diseases that could be cured by stem cell research? Just to let you know I`ve lost 2 people to diseases that could be cured thru this... first my little brother at the tender age of 1 1/2 years old and then my best friend that i had grown up with since we were in pre-school when he was 16... i understand what people are saying, save me, prolong my life... my point is that it`s all well and good if we prolong life but we need to take a look at the way life is being lived... what good would it be if we are able to cure every single disease out there if we destroy the eco system that we live in?

This is exactly the point that i`m trying to make... people are selfish... save MY life, save MY loved ones lives... do everything and "anything" needed to make me live longer... doesn`t matter that I do nothing to help the "world". Let`s all take a look at the big picture shall we and maybe we can grow as a society... how is it that people in well to do countries think nothing of throwing massive amounts of food daily when millions die of starvation? Hmm? How, how is it that any of us can live with this, without lifting a finger? How is it that the world`s wealth is controlled by maybe 10% of the haves? How is it that they dictate policy instead of the masses which could be considered the have-nots? You know how many people are dying daily from AIDS in Africa? But yeah, let`s cure all diseases so they can die of starvation... we need to reach a balance w/ earth, society as a whole, and provide at least the basic necessities for life for "everyone" in the world. NO ONE SHOULD DIE IN THIS WORLD FROM STARVATION... i repeat... NO ONE SHOULD DIE IN THIS WORLD FROM STARVATION!!!

But hey how can people understand what i`m saying if they`re close minded or have been sheltered and lived in a bubble their whole life...


~CV

U have 2 get stem cells from like unborn babies. So, It`s bad, and good, I don`t have an opinion about it. Unless u tke that as an opinion.

you can say that as much as you like until someone near you is dying from a disease which could be cured by stem cell research then you will look at the problem totally differently, it is the job of a doctor to prolong life by whatever means available to them. if you give doctors another way to fight diseases then more people will die and maybe in the near future certain diseases will no longer pose a threat to man kind, that is the unltimate goal, people living longer and flourishing, accomplishing more with their lives

lol there are many goverments in the world which one are you talking about for all we know some governments may not have banned them and doing it in secret lol

pokes the thread creator