The Gordo Land Fix - ( Ideas )

@Omeg
That makes sense. Nerfing ferts would piss people off but oh well. Just means they still have an advantage over a c3 a couple big c2s but no big deal. Each race would have nerfs and buff tailor made to fit each one. I`d like to point out that this is just for RT.

GOM, clustered players have to fight for borders and thats not a death sentence for them right? Why is it a death sentence for gordod players?

Thats insane logic.

@Asmo - overall which hits your overall production/income.
1. Forest - +50 Agri instead of +100, U Fert +75 instead of +250. Even then the planet`s base mod are still both better than a c3 by almost 2-3x.

While I would like to see U. Fertiles being nerfed I know many UW reward people on RT would be angry.
2. If Land > 50K and Planets < 69 (for example), income/production is 25-50% of potential for certain races (Tax Miners and Agri terrans come to mind). I would do less % potential to virals and collectives and less to guards due to their income variance compared to other races.

Makes sense. Are you proposing something like diminishing returns the more land you have on a particular colony?

Exploreation is only part of the issue, an income nerf is also needed for those exploreable empires

+1 Badwolfs proposed idea. Maybe there is hope after all

Thank you Ank.

Did some math...

Using BW`s formulas of a cap at either 69 or 75, this is BARELY a nerf to gordod empires.

At the higher cap of 75, it takes miners 600 turns to build scouts and explore 3 borders. It takes guards 2.6 hours or 1390 turns to explore 3 borders.

So to anyone crying that this is going to destroy the game for you, you can either pop out of dp and counter someone for borders, or you can drop pr and get free planets for borders, or you can explore for a whopping 2 hours and be all bordered up again.

Again, the proposed numbers are barely a nerf - more of a slight inconvenience and I would argue for more turns required to explore if they are to remain explorable

Yeah it potentially can be set on a race by race basis, I`d just need to see what might be in mind for that.

can this be changed for a race aswell as server?

Alright .. I`m making some spreadsheets today to help everyone visualize some things (myself included).... Probably be posted in ~12 hours. I`ve got some errands to do first. Taking suggestions, first ones up will be centered on cost of exploration with posted changes. (turns/money costs for all races)

Ah - I take back my comment on that, still though an income/production nerf needs to be done on all servers and thought my idea would help with that as there are too many exploreable empires on TB as there is no reason for them to cluster further if they can just sit with 100-120k land making cash.

Personally I don`t see much of a reason to apply this to TB, not even ultra, just my take on that though..

Sorry that I neglected to say RT only on that one lol.

Sorry omeg my fault, that would apply only to RT, if it did apply to TB it would be with much different values. My bad.

Unless my math is wrong here, this is a larger risk to any gordoed empire by land exploration, but not their production/income potential. Honestly, its a little severe considering going on your math that any exploration is almost impossible after about 60k land on a TB server. Would like to see a complete picture breakdown from explore points and by race exploration ships as currently I don`t see the value of this change.

My whole gripe is the income disadvantage guards have without gordoed land, that was the reason why almost every guard is gordoed. A terran or a. miner can run circles around a guard in income unless gordoed and this doesn`t do anything to help this issue. An exploreable tax miner or agri terran with u fertiles can last longer and recover way quicker than a guard ever can. You see this more on a TB than on RT. Don`t even bring artifacts into this as those need to be nerfed as well.

You have to look at the balance from a TB perspective, not RT perspective, otherwise you fail to see that the RT effect makes TB almost unplayable for a Guardian (Ultra is an exception). I currently don`t see any fix in this formula that would make people stop being exploreable with 100k land income/production wise.

It seems 110K land is now considered the sweet spot before you get larger exploration modifier.

56 Planets, 120K land is 1 bil exploreation points, but 30 planets 110k land is 338M exploreation points.

Guard end game?

-options
-restart empire.

Land based exploring to 69 seems reasonable to me. That means that gordo empires will still have a significant bonus to make their effort worth it. They can still explore borders, but it`s harder.

if a uw blows all guards should be restarted for failing to stop it even if there in the same fed

Im wondering if Mompy is avoiding actually telling you that guards need some sort of end game. I will posit that to this end, the guards need SOMETHING to do during a UW, and get some reward for taking one down, IN ADDITION to the rewards the UW holder gets for however long the UW lasts.

There WILL be some risk. There must be. There also must be change.