Proposed Gordo Solution

Additional note: this would negate the upkeep reduction and random land increase.

I tend to fall somewhere in between both of your visions.

Frankly, the fertile mods have been excessive mixed with Gordos since inception. And I also see the random land + mod for c3/c.4 combined with the upkeep reduction a bit much as well.

I was thinking more along the lines of bringing the fertile down closer to current forest mods (100ish) and bumping c3 mods by a nice margin.

And, to go along with that, introduce `cluster types` so that you would invest into a certain +mod (pop, industry, commerce, etc.) instead of the current flat rates.

Ex: c1 that is chosen industry, the planet mod could have +5% cg production.

Go to cluster it into Agri c2, and the cg mod disappears, and +20% Agri only.

Larger bonus for c3`s and c.4`s. +50% Agri perhaps for instance(c3).

And introduce a research so that people can swap cluster types if they choose.

Floated the idea to bw...

You are missing the point Omeg, a hoarding empire does have the chance of having more income than a gordo empire. There is the planet count issue, which unlocks the potential of more land, you get a bonus once you cluster a c3 and a c4, plus if you are over the 125 planet count, you get a reduction in upkeep-Id say those are pretty good bonuses for being a hoarder. Plus, if you explore a capture a few good clusters, you will be getting more land quicker, so there is no need to be messing with planet structures at all. Gordo empires will be slower in growth with a cap, hoarders have more chances of getting their planets quicker. I say we leave planet structure alone and lets see what these changes bring, no need to mess with any U class planet whatsoever.

Current RT Server Average (Across the top 15 empires with the most total land):- 236,062
Current RT Server Average (Across the top 15 empires with the most total land, excluding the top 3):- 164,998

Excluding just the top three empires you see the average drop by a staggering 71,064

So BW this is the top 15 land?
Not the top 15 gordo`d C2 i supose?

Those that hoard should also have a better income than gordoed empires because they are also risking not being exploreable. You also negate that the ones already who have clusters will not get that land bonus until I have read otherwise (I believe BW is looking into that). The system is not fine as it is now standalone even with just tweaking the upkeep and future clustered planets. This game at one point was at one point to entice people to hoard over being exploreable rather than gordo their way to their incomes.

Anyone holding on to 125+ planets get a percentage drop in their fleet, regardless of the land. Over the time that it takes an empire to get to 150k land( aside from those already there) compared to someone who is able to hoard 125 planets, their income over that time will be greater just from a decrease in fleet upkeep. Leave the systems alone for now, they are fine. Besides, once clustering to a C3 or C4 there will be an automatic land bonus, so hoarding empires will have added land to go along with decrease in upkeep.

I vote for tweaking the planet % modifiers and also increasing the % modifiers for hoarders > 125 planets since right now the income gain they have compared to a gordoed empire that has 150k land for instance is almost negligible if said hoarder has near 150k land as well. If you are going to have a % industry modifier increase for ularges, then you should align that same % modifier or close to it for u. fertiles in my opinion.

Leave the planets the way they are- if someone is choosing to use a U class that is their choice, they already have a cap. Anyone hoarding planets don`t need any more boost to income since the increase of planets means a boost to possible land mass, no need to make things even more lopsided for a hoarding planet empire. Actually the only change I wouldnt mind seeing is a boost to industry on say a U Large, give a +% for any industry put on one, but otherwise don`t tweak the systems, all of these other changes will be enough to have to deal with for now.

Ender, Why would you have 1 c3? Obviously if your gonna horde ur gonna have 5-8 of them to make it worth it.... The proposed updates are great, just suggesting for the long term goals of the game we allow those who wanna just dig and epxlore for borders to do so by giving them less land per gordo...
Game seems to have two goals
1. UW
2. Build a big fat Empire

Im ready for more goals!
MORE GOALS!

AM a C3 is still just 1 colony. If you are AFK long enough to lose it than you`d be afk long enough to lose your gordoed planets anyways.

Nobody gordos over 125.... that would be pointless u just gonna lose clusters when u forget to log on for 2 days

AM, there is no hard cap. You can still gordo to infinity, you just need to have 125 planets to do it.

1. Yes to diminished returns on both types of gordo, no hard cap.
2.Give planet modifiers to c3s and c4s +% of population, food & goods production.
3. Take the modifier down a bit for Fertiles
4. Raise the Land Cap on All planet types by 20-30% that are explored.
5. Having a planet count of 125 or more = 10% upkeep Reduction on Fleet

I think the proposal is a good idea. Ill ignore most of the comments against it because very few had any reasonable arguments to them

I for one like the idea of capping a planet at 150k land, then any extra needs to be got through clustering. How about under a planet count of 50 the max land you can have is `x`, then the next tier is 64 planets, land is `x`, then the next tier is 75planets, land at `x`, and so on. This makes growing land and planets at different intervals but still making it slow growth.
I like the idea of being able to gordo and explore up a certain level, since with my full time work, school and raising a family I can`t babysit an empire to make sure I have my borders for my huge planet count. Someone else who has the time or want to cluster will be able to have more land than I, but that is the trade off I choose because of my schedule or situation. Capped land mass under a certain amount means less possible income, so the opposite of that is more planets for more income, but also more risk, but I think they actually balance each other out. Lets cap it and move on, it is still a step in the right direction

Well there you go. Make it so.

I agree. And if the big gordo beasts like Sibi and Raist are willing to drop their land, I will not argue.

Asmodean, you really need to read the `Updated Point:` under the main post, two of the top Gordo`d empires which would be impacted by the crunch down to 150k have already agreed to it. I am sure the other players who would be impacted will agree.

This is a no-win scenario here. There IS NO solution to please everyone. The only way to fix this is to leave the decision in the hands of the heavy-gordoed planet holders... before you go nuclear on that, read on.

BWs gordo/land proposal here makes sense. It works (could work). It would still allow folks to buy paids with gordoes, and if most gordo users are anything like a couple people I know, they wont stay in one empire long enough to use up that 150k land before restarting to another race to repeat the process.
So the old players with tons of land are the ones holding us all up. Thats fine, we can leave things as-is and never have any hope of ousting them from economic dominance.
But if they were reasonable enough, and I believe they are, they would be willing to make some sort of sacrifice/arrangement for the benefit of the game as a whole, and more so themselves.

You cannot get rid of gordoes, it is that simple. But BWs idea seems like the way to go. The grandfathers will have to have a nerfing done to them to make it work the way it should. What that is, if any, is up to them. They hold the power (second only to Admins force-restarting everyone....literally eevryone....a disaster that.).

EE on your last point thats easy to code

IF border is above 800-1000 land or is u class (spaz) random factor doesnt apply :P

Also on my previous point there could be a possible abuse with the hoarders which im not entirelly sure on how to fix without basically forcing a land loss should they plunder their planets back to exploring status