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Forum Index General Discussion Your Opinion pt II, The Choice

Your Opinion pt II, The Choice

Started by EphemeralEternity · 06/04/2016 · 11:29 PM · 56 replies · 1 read
E EphemeralEternityOP
This is a bit of a long one so make sure you read it all and comment on everything in as clear a manner as possible, there will be a lot of topics

We intend to set up a Black market, or more a Welfare market if you will, now read carefully, we intend for you to be able to buy and sell on this market but anything sold would just go to the system and be gone for ever I will explain after I get some of the numbers out of the way so stay with me and don`t form an opinion just yet

This new market will most likely separate from the real market first off and the whole Idea is to persuade people to use the regular market and to discourage use of the BM/WM or what ever it should be called. But it exist so that if you need something and the regular market is dried up, you can find it for a price

examples i`ll start with minerals

you would be able to buy minerals on this new market from the system, but the price would be dynamic depending on how much of this specific mineral you have have in both your stores and listed on the market so it couldn`t be abused

for if you had under 3 million terran metal total, you could buy up to the point where you have the 3mil terran metal at a price of 1,000, then from the range of say 3 mil to 10 mil the price would be 1.5k
10-20mil at 2k then at 20-50 mil would be 4k and 50mil and above 10k

basically this makes it so new players can buy minerals when they need them without suffering but those who wish to hoard pay a bit of a price if they choose to buy them from here rather than the real market and so they won`t get nearly the return on the money they invested we also realize that some people may chose to stay lower than the 3 mil mark and buy from this market and post on the normal market for their hoarder friends, if this is an issue we can put a cap on the amount of minerals that can be bought in a week

Cgs and raw mat most likely won`t be available from this BM/WM.

We are struggling with the idea of making food available however, but this is a tricky one, so what we propose is if we do food we make it so each race can buy enough food at their break even point for the race and limit the amount to week perhaps based on their econ and we hopefully can make this different for each server so that say on ultra you`d be able to buy enough for 800 turns, which is not nearly enough for the week but might see you through the bad times

on to selling for sell, you`d be able to sell things to the BM/WM but in my vision of this market the amount needs to be so sickeningly low that you`d never do it unless you had no choice, meaning you`re running out of cash and you`re stuff is not selling and I think this price needs to be well below the min price on the normal market to make sure you always post there and try to sell it

so here are my prices that you`d be able to sell food to the system for

food would be .25
cg`s would be .1
raw mat .01
Ore would be 500
minerals would be 50
I think these numbers would dissuade anyone from selling to the BM/WM in any but the direst means meaning that players would be contributing to the game rather than playing an econ sim.

We don`t want to turn GC into UC, that`s been the biggest fear for a lot of people I think concerning BM`s and we`re not looking to make the game any easier really, we just want to make the game playable through rough times so people have a chance to enjoy the game.

Now here`s what we`d like from you

Should we have BM like system yes or no

what should it be called

what should the pricing brackets for minerals be like and how much should they cost

Do we need cg`s and raw mat

how should Ore be handled

should food be allowed

if food is allowed how should it be handled

Should we allow selling back to the system on this market, if so what should the prices be (must be lower than current mins at least, and we don`t want them high enough people could make a stable living selling at these prices)

Should the ability to buy food for guards be disabled, (buy only not sell)

Should we increase the max credit cap, what should it be, we were thinking 10-5 til so maybe 7.5 tril

Should we increase the max cap on food, what should it be, we were thinking 10 bil

Should we increase the max cap on food, what should it be, we were thinking 10 bil

one I haven`t ran by BW yet so not sure if it`s all that possible, Should we increase the max cap on Slave tribute reserves and what should it be (no opinion here)

Please do not discuss Minerals caps we will discuss another time, and we also know that it may be best to make these caps race econ type and or server specific, but please don`t talk about these here we`ll get to those issues another time and there`s already enough to talk about in this thread

Edited by EphemeralEternity on 2016-04-06
A ArchAng3l
I`ll try keep my comment short and sweet. EE, you can pm me if need any clarification :)

Yes, BM is good.

Let`s keep the objective of BM simple - for player to be able to get some mineral to fight when market is dry.
Eg for RT:
Player could buy minerals from BM up to 100k each. If their mineral store have more than 100k of the mineral, they are not allow to buy any more from BM (till their store drop below 100k).
Player could be able to buy some ore from BM too. Maybe not exceed 20k from their store.

Sell to BM - No. It does not fit to the objective of BM. Let all selling be done on open market.

Hence all hoarding of resources and selling should still be left to the open market for the dynamic of supply and demand. However, player should not be stop to enjoy fighting when there`s no supply. Hence BM would fill up the supply gap but only till player could build ship for fighting.


YES to all below since uw is getting harder, player should be allow to store more resources in preparation of a full uw.
Should we increase the max credit cap, what should it be, we were thinking 10-5 til so maybe 7.5 tril
Should we increase the max cap on food, what should it be, we were thinking 10 bil
Should we increase the max cap on food, what should it be, we were thinking 10 bil
S Stargaters
Should we have BM like system yes or no: Yes

what should it be called: Don`t care

what should the pricing brackets for minerals be like and how much should they cost: I think we should be pretty careful with mins here, especially if we are already increasing the credit cap. I think making it prohibitively expensive after a certain stockpile is a good idea. I`d say start at ~2k for new empires who really need mins.

Do we need cg`s and raw mat: No

how should Ore be handled: I think a lot more expensive than current market cap, which I also think should be raised. 50+k per ore.

should food be allowed / if food is allowed how should it be handled: Only at the cut-off point for each race.

Should we allow selling back to the system on this market, if so what should the prices be: Sure. I think the prices you listed are fine. They are low enough so that an empire couldn`t really make money that way, but helps empires that get to max and can`t sell. That said, I`m not sure why this would be needed for food/ore/RM/CGs/etc, but I guess it doesn`t bother me that they`re there.

Should the ability to buy food for guards be disabled, (buy only not sell): Yes

Should we increase the max credit cap, what should it be, we were thinking 10-5 til so maybe 7.5 tril: Yes, the higher the better.

Should we increase the max cap on food, what should it be, we were thinking 10 bil: Yes.

Should we increase the max cap on food, what should it be, we were thinking 10 bil: Am I right in thinking you meant CGs instead of food twice? If so, Yes we really need a higher cap on CGs. I`d also be thrilled if the market cap for CGs was changed to 6 so I could store and not sell only at prices that profit other empires.

Should we increase the max cap on Slave tribute reserves and what should it be: Yes, again, the higher the better.
R Renegade
HAPPY SHOPPER... I lol`d. Add in my vote for Happy Shopper !
F fortythree
FOOOOOD!
My idea on food is that if we do go for a system we should have an upper and lower bound and these should be discussed until some sort of consensus can be agreed. I believe either pure tax or pure agri should be inherently risky as these are the ways to gain maximum income. In that case food could always be available at a "high" price, which could even be race dependent so that a particular race would only just fail to break even buying it and sales should be at a "low" price. In any case I believe the Guardians should be excluded from this. They have no need of food, no real incentive to go Agri and can benefit far too much from marketeering with their OP low upkeep.
F fortythree
Sorry realise I`m serial VMing at the moment but hope to be a bit more active in a couple of months! So here`s my opinion:

Should we have BM like system yes or no YES

what should it be called HAPPY SHOPPER

what should the pricing brackets for minerals be like and how much should they cost

Sorry a long answer here. I believe a more radical system along simialr lines to that proposed by EE would be great. I think that only small batches should be available and that the cost should be equal to the current stockpile and market listings divided by 1000. This would allow truely new/desperate empires a cheap way to resupply and really prevent hoarding

Do we need cg`s and raw mat NO but can`t see a problem having it.

how should Ore be handled as minerals but divide by 10 not 1000

should food be allowed I`ll do a seperate post on my view of this.

Should we allow selling back to the system on this market, if so what should the prices be (must be lower than current mins at least, and we don`t want them high enough people could make a stable living selling at these prices) YES suggested prices look good

Should the ability to buy food for guards be disabled, (buy only not sell) I Believe all options except buying minerals should be dissabled for guards

Should we increase the max credit cap, what should it be, we were thinking 10-5 til so maybe 7.5 tril YES the higher the better

Should we increase the max cap on food, what should it be, we were thinking 10 bil YES the higher the better

one I haven`t ran by BW yet so not sure if it`s all that possible, Should we increase the max cap on Slave tribute reserves and what should it be (no opinion here) YES the higher the better
BadWolf
the BM isn`t intended as an option for people with unlimited cash to dump their excess stores, it`s intended to ensure all people have the ability to get resources to be able to do things such as build ships/fight.
E EnderWiggin
I know balance changes are not done, and I REALLY didn`t want to complain about a race but the mineral BM suggestion seems so unfair. A black market price of 3-4x normal max price is as high as anything needs to go. There is a reason certain races stockpile, and it`s because their upkeeps are so clunky that they necessitate it. They are already punished by these upkeeps and the fact that in order to build to these high powers they are forced to wait on people buying their stockpiles (even 5 tril credit cap insufficient). Making them pay 10x the normal amount only really seems to affect 1-2 races for no reason (as if paying 400% of what you will eventually need to resell it for isn`t enough)
E EnderWiggin
Should we have BM like system yes or no Yes, or toggle every x interval (3 months?)

what should it be called BM

what should the pricing brackets for minerals be like and how much should they cost

At LEAST 2,000 for cheapest bracket, up to 3,000 for highest bracket. (*I will speak more on this at end)

Do we need cg`s and raw mat
No BM for CG (it is supplementary only and tax already getting BM at break even). Maybe raw mat at 3-4 (to protect CG miners in same way as food for taxers) Or if you mean in general do we need them, I don`t know.

how should Ore be handled
BM at 20-50k

should food be allowed
I don`t know. This is so hard because of dichotomous tax income 14 and 35 so far apart.

if food is allowed how should it be handled
Honestly, I think the problem would go away if you could somehow get Miner and viral tax margins closer. (with updates to races upkeeps of course.)

Should we allow selling back to the system on this market, if so what should the prices be (must be lower than current mins at least, and we don`t want them high enough people could make a stable living selling at these prices)
sell back at 50-100 for minerals, food 1, cg`s 1, ore 500.

Should the ability to buy food for guards be disabled, (buy only not sell)
yes.

Should we increase the max credit cap, what should it be, we were thinking 10-5 til so maybe 7.5 tril
Yes. start at 5-7.5 and nerf Dineros.
Should we increase the max cap on food, what should it be, we were thinking 10 bil
5bil

one I haven`t ran by BW yet so not sure if it`s all that possible, Should we increase the max cap on Slave tribute reserves and what should it be (no opinion here)

yes, 5 billion max, OR no but if at max, 50% penalty for additional tribute (that gets deposited into bank)
A americanministry
I don`t think black market helps the player market at all. I would think u would want to just make everyone contribute to the market for better balancing
D DarthCaedus
Should we have BM like system yes or no. yes we should normal is bare of minerals for one

what should it be called. black market

what should the pricing brackets for minerals be like and how much should they cost. as sugguested raise price based on how much you have in store

Do we need cg`s and raw mat.

how should Ore be handled. price increase

should food be allowed. yes

if food is allowed how should it be handled. dont know

Should we allow selling back to the system on this market, if so what should the prices be (must be lower than current mins at least, and we don`t want them high enough people could make a stable living selling at these prices) yes

Should the ability to buy food for guards be disabled, (buy only not sell) yes

Should we increase the max credit cap, what should it be, we were thinking 10-5 til so maybe 7.5 tril. hell yes it should be increased to ten trillion and remove rich list names keep were u are like your number 5 or whatever

Should we increase the max cap on food, what should it be, we were thinking 10 bil. yes

Should we increase the max cap on food, what should it be, we were thinking 10 bil yes

one I haven`t ran by BW yet so not sure if it`s all that possible, Should we increase the max cap on Slave tribute reserves and what should it be (no opinion here) yes you should. 5 billion as max gets filled once every two days on normal faster on faster servers
T TranquilSuns
Also, pointing at upkeep ee, not that defending the lictor is exactly a good position to take up anyways..
T TranquilSuns
Should we have BM like system: yes

what should it be called: Dark Market

what should the pricing brackets for minerals be like and how much should they cost: 2-3x. Limit to 12 mil total daily/sell at 100

Do we need cg`s and raw mat: would not hurt.

how should Ore be handled: 2-3x buy/1,000 sell

should food be allowed: yes

if food is allowed how should it be handled: buy at race profit limit/sell@2

Should we allow selling back to the system on this market, if so what should the prices be (must be lower than current mins at least, and we don`t want them high enough people could make a stable living selling at these prices). Yes.

Should the ability to buy food for guards be disabled, (buy only not sell)

Should we increase the max credit cap, what should it be, we were thinking 10-5 til so maybe 7.5 tril

Should we increase the max cap on food, what should it be, we were thinking 10 bil

Should we increase the max cap on food, what should it be, we were thinking 10 bil

one I haven`t ran by BW yet so not sure if it`s all that possible, Should we increase the max cap on Slave tribute reserves and what should it be (no opinion here)
E EphemeralEternityOP
but anyhow back to the top of thread please, don`t want this to get all muddled with to many other ideas atm people will then start discussing those rather than these that i hope we can get on a solid page about in the near future
E EphemeralEternityOP
when some of these other pieces fall into place so things will be easier to figure out for all of us. econs will be easier to figure out with NPC`s and a BM in place.

just because a door closes or shuts partway...haven`t decided doesn`t mean other things won`t get better and ships can and will change, btw that horrendous lictor is your best option to stop damage from tourms ruby b sword pike and other nasty high kinetic damage to pr ships before that miners we`re using their face to soak up all that damage, or their souless chlor spams
T TranquilSuns
And since their ship list has been rendered obsolete and neutrals more expensive than the already horrendous lictor...

/me throws another brick on the sinking ship.
O Omegian
Not to jump to anything EE, but when you say Tax won`t be as good in the future, that almost sounds like there is something planned for miner. Which then forces me to ask when discussion on that part will take place since race determination is based upon economic viability and shiplist ...
E EphemeralEternityOP
Not so much worried about miner in the long term omeg, tax won`t be nearly as good as an option for them.

and as post on the new w/e market, there won`t be actual post you`ll sell to the system and it`ll go away, and you buy and the system will generate how ever much you bought, i don`t see a reason to have actual post because i dunno about BW but i`m sure not going to keep pressing a button to add more to it nor i see a reason for their to be a finite amount on it

Edited by EphemeralEternity on 2016-04-07
A americanministry
Should we have BM like system : no






how should Ore be handled: Raise price limit


Should we allow selling back to the system on this market, if so what should the prices be: NO, Make every race play the market and if not less income
Should the ability to buy food for guards be disabled: Yes do not let them buy food. Let them sell it.

Should we increase the max credit cap, what should it be: 10 Trillion

Should we increase the max cap on food, No, market stability says to keep it in the market

Should we increase the max cap on goods?: Nope 2bil is fine

Should we increase infra research to 300? Yes 10k turns per level

Should we incentivize winning battles: Yes, winning a battle should earn you a prize. Artifacts would be best, credits would be fun too based on race.
A Ankaar
Should we have BM like system yes or no
YES

what should it be called
BLACK MARKET

what should the pricing brackets for minerals be like and how much should they cost
1500/2k EACH, INCREASE AS YOU SEE FIT

Do we need cg`s and raw mat
NO / POSTING HIGHER THAN CURRENT MARKET FOR EITHER AND NOBODY WILL REALLY PROFIT

how should Ore be handled
30K EACH

should food be allowed
NO

Should we allow selling back to the system on this market, if so what should the prices be (must be lower than current mins at least, and we don`t want them high enough people could make a stable living selling at these prices)
NO

Should the ability to buy food for guards be disabled, (buy only not sell)
YES

Should we increase the max credit cap, what should it be, we were thinking 10-5 til so maybe 7.5 tril
5 TRIL SEEMS PLENTY HIGH - NOT MANY AT CAP ANYHOW

Should we increase the max cap on food, what should it be, we were thinking 10 bil
AT LEAST 10 BIL

one I haven`t ran by BW yet so not sure if it`s all that possible, Should we increase the max cap on Slave tribute reserves and what should it be (no opinion here)
DO WE NEED A MAX? ITS DEFINITELY TOO LOW AS IS
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