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Neutral updates are here

Started by EphemeralEternity · 04/04/2016 · 02:55 AM · 168 replies · 5 reads
E EphemeralEternityOP
OP 04/04/2016 · 02:55 AM
First of all a big thanks goes out to BW for finding a very nice solution to integrating my new systems into GC this is the neutral updates i was talking about so long ago, E class was just a small part of this update. I`ve taken and made it so each neutral ship has an upkeep more in line with it`s racial ships, this will make balancing Econs for all races alot easier when we get to it this should also open up more fleet options for all races.

So first we have the 4 new E class ships This is the old E class thread for those of you who don`t know their stats.

Moving on Light corvette and Frigate have been removed from the game, LFD will be granted free upon restart no research needed and will remain unchanged for all races.

As you`ll notice the biggest change is Strafez, it has gotten a good deal more expensive for all, this will make UWing harder and more costly, it will also make it harder and more costly for those who like to fodder up to higher prs to research or dig and generally just avoid all the fun which i think we can all agree will bring more balance to the game runner has a cheaper upkeep to pr overall than fodder, but it`s also alot easier to kill.



Along with the above some research has been changed. the Light class researched has been swapped out for research concerning E class, Both fodder researches have been removed but fodder will be granted from creature research. we`ve also lowered the turn requirements on cluster research, some marauder ships and miner ships including G class lowered from 1,500 to 500 and Hun Li research has been lowered from 25,000 to 5,000 and Hun Xe research has been lowered from 25,000 to 2,500 turns further more BW came up with a way to augment turn requirements by servers. so then turn requirements for the research tree on ultra have been reduced by 15% fast 20% normal 30% and Slow 40%. Not none of these changes effect Infrastructure research


The Second Part of this is Fixing not only Viral upkeeps for captured and RE ships but we threw in collective as well so collectves don`t have destroy any ships they happen to capture for fear of crippling debt. also viral build cost is fixed







Everyone will have to click this link to update their shiplist Click here! Well any questions concerns comments or what ever you may have feel free to post in this thread

Edited by EphemeralEternity on 2016-04-04
A Asmodean
04/04/2016 · 09:52 PM
Guards have it alot tougher now. Lots of high range missile now. Upkeep changes are groundwork for full on econ rebalancing. It is needed. Be patient, play with your new E toys.
D DarthCaedus
04/04/2016 · 09:50 PM
the straq cost increase is far to much now you need a bigger income now just to climb to then build capital ships to uw. you have made uwing apart from being a miner who gets killed by guards anyway impossible
E EPrussia
04/04/2016 · 09:37 PM
Im sorry how are you meant to build up to uw with increase in cost. change it back
A Ankaar
04/04/2016 · 09:28 PM
And I agree, and I really doubt that would be the case anyways - unless you consider building you empire and doing infra as part of that year, in which case I totally agree. A young 100 infra empire shouldnt be able to do a UW just because their buddies flooded him with cheap food and bought it out at 40 a few times
A americanministry
04/04/2016 · 09:08 PM
I have no proem with the awesome new stuff, just think that uws shouldn`t happen at a rate of once every two years on the real time server.
A Ankaar
04/04/2016 · 09:08 PM
Obviously vote yes for this

First off, and a few others have noted this, most of the anger from people is coming from two things - ONE, they fail to realize this is just the beginning of ship updates. You might think wow this makes some races slightly unbalanced - thats perfectly fine because coming up next is ship updates for other races.

I do think it would have been perhaps a bit better to do the ship updates all in one go, and then tinker with them from there, but hey this works too. The ship changes at this point certainly dont HURT anybody, and if its decided that the e class is wicked unbalanced, then ok, theyll tinker with their stats a bit and change them with future updates.

The SECOND problem people seem to have is with the future EE mentioned.
1 - racial economy changes
2 - changes to gordo`s
3 - changes to UW.

Thats fine, theyll change economy a bit. I totally understand the fear - BUT ADMINS, I PUT YEARS INTO THIS ECONONY. Wow, that does suck to just change it. WAIT, WHAT DID EE SAY IMMEDIATELY AFTERWARD? Oh thats right, he said that with major changes like that, players will have the opportunity to redistribute infra, and I assume depending on what changes, maybe planet type. Although, I doubt we will see collective turned into a taxer empire, so your fert can stay a fert.

The same thing has been adressed with ship changes - virals WILL get the opportunity to change up their reverse engineered ships once ship changes are finalized. Nerfing long time viral favorites wont matter - they will have an opportunity to grab all kinds of new solid ships when changes are made.

Changes to gordos or gordoed planets is insanely fair. And again, I dont think staff will just be like ok, cant make planets over 50k land anymore, anyone with land over 50k is going to have it slashed. Obviously they wont do that.

Should the UW be cake? Obviously not. I think when he said a year of prep it was an exaggeration
Z Zanarkand
04/04/2016 · 08:46 PM
I`m gonna take some heat for this one.

I vote to keep them. True some races have taken a hit, but it`s an UPDATE. It`s not as if it`s the finished product. Let`s just see where this one takes us.

@EE - Thank you and BW for working on the game without so much as getting a dime. It`s really appreciated.

Thank you, and don`t hate me for my vote. Happy Hunting ^^
C Caramelo18
04/04/2016 · 08:39 PM
I vote yes on everything

The new dig times were a very nice addition and the upkeep adjustments to neutrals classes for all races was needed (Congrats to whoever was responsible on both). Im curious on how you want to adjust the econ types.

Sidenote regarding that : Could selling stuff on market become more automatic? like say if your resources are above certain type they get automatically sold at "x" price?

I assume we will have a "dna" (uc`s equivalent of a restart without loosing anything) in case, per instance, commerce terran became trash?

My only question is the new neutral class but rather than be scared of what it can do to RT server where borders are easy to come by, id rather it be tested there and adjusted as needed (ive had years of torm spams (and k class spams) running around, a few extra e class ships wont really affect me and i doubt they are op)
T Theghostcat
04/04/2016 · 06:56 PM
Siding with AM on this one - no. If you want my vote - then lower exploration cost for miners.
C Cataclysm21
04/04/2016 · 05:15 PM
HD; but wouldn`t that be an argument then to rebalance the light ships in order for them to be used more instead of removing and adding a whole new class? I personally think that the E.Class is a nice concept for a new race. Instead of giving every empire more ships everytime. If a person has plenty choices and only 10 stacks able to fight, then you`re bound to not use certain ships ever. A new race would force everyone to stack different due to a different threat. For offense you always build towards what you need for your enemies race. However for defence things are more complicated.
H Helms{}Deep
04/04/2016 · 05:03 PM
No one use the lights anymore, except as a filler stack for a spam. At least with these E class, everyone will be using them in some capacity- not just Miner. How about the other races that have only 1 pure missile ship? And as for gordo`s, that is the empires choice to decide to use those instead of hoarding planets, so I dont think the use of gordo`s or not should come into play for a UW.
C Cataclysm21
04/04/2016 · 04:44 PM
My vote is yes and no;

-No against the E-Class. Bring back the lights and use the E.class as a base for a new race or try implementing them in A.Miner as they need them (best to just rebalance their ships though instead of adding ones)

-Yes against the change of Strafez

-Yes against the research turns for G and K class (much more realistic now), although I would prefer if the Hun Xe research was left at 5000 instead of 2500. We shouldn`t make it to easy to get those ships

-Yes against the new racial upkeeps for neutral ships

-Yes against the new coll/viral upkeeps. Virals will have to pay more for marauder ships, so what. It is more in line with their ship choices. Maru ships were low upkeep because of the Maru playing style. Viral is nothing like a Maru and thus doesnt need that low upkeep. You just gotta stack different and depend less on the marauder ships in a whole


Apart from this I read a lot about idea`s for the future UW and Arti`s in relation to gordo`s;
1) If you make a limit to the amount of arti`s, make sure that if the limit is 100 and someone has 187, he keeps his 187 arti`s but can`t get anymore till he is below a 100. No one can complain about time wasted etc
2) Don`t make a succesfull UW reset gordo`ed planets! Gordoing a planet is timeconsuming and a reall investment. No one is gonna invest the time in gordoing if you can have all you time wasted in just 2 days... Specially not if you`re gonna nerf the gordo (wich I read somewhere). Nerfing the gordo would be a bad idea aswell. We might have gotten more dig times, but most players aren`t players that sit around 24/7. Yes there are exeptions. Why not make rule like you can only gordo a planet to let`s say 300% of the original size (that`s 3x as big). This way you limit it and will still encourage people to also fight and hoard them tasty clusters. And again let people who already have that big planet, keep them. Their bound to get lost someday and will make prime targets for th
P PistolPete
04/04/2016 · 04:03 PM
I defientely vote yes for these changes!
R Renegade
04/04/2016 · 03:17 PM
I think there`s two issues that seem to be upsetting everyone here -

The first is a lot of people posting aren`t understand that this isn`t the be all end all for GC, it`s merely a start in the right direction and a chance to see how things pan out, then to make relative changes accordingly.

I`d also like to point out that all the things being thrown about and upsetting people, like gordo nerfs or whatnot, ARE NOT IN THE GAME YET. Let`s at least not complain about things that don`t even and may not ever exist.

The second is that EE and BW seem to have different ideas about the game than say AmericanMinistry. From what I gather EE and BW want to rebalance the game around a few core ideas that most people have agreed with over the years - Namely UW`s being challenging to complete, stacking being slightly more normal and all of the races relatively in balance with one another in terms of econ and fighting.

What confuses me is the people complaining that their race is now harder...

This is literally a buff to every race, with the most benefits likely to be seen among Miner`s and Viral`s. Possibly the least to Guardian and Collective.


As for AM, please if you`d like the game to continue to die in stagnation continue - I for one would rather see updates and then discussion and then tweaks. It`s not a dictatorship here where BW and EE decide what happens and that`s that. Every single one of you knows that`s the way it has NEVER been. People continually arguing against updates is 50% of the reason they take so long to happen. It`s hard to please everyone, ESPECIALLY in a game like this where people are incredibly biased towards their own empires because of the time and effort spent getting attached to them.
K KnightOfBaa
04/04/2016 · 02:24 PM
keep the updates aslong as i can have 10 infra levels for spending 25k turns only a few days before the k class change :p
O OpusDeus
04/04/2016 · 01:48 PM
Keep the updates, and keep them coming! *hugs his new Quasar ship*
A Asmodean
04/04/2016 · 12:56 PM
I vote to keep the update as is. I see it as groundwork for the other updates we need and look forward to this games continued survival
A ArchAng3l
04/04/2016 · 11:45 AM
The admin and staff is doing this volunteering. Looking at all the changes and proposals, I can see that lots of effort and time have been spent. Especially overcoming the coding complexity in this dated game. Our staff here is doing it purely out of passion. With this alone, I vote yes. I hope this will give them some encouragement and fuel to keep on the hard work. Some of you might think the staff is going to kill the game with the changes. But do take a step back, if not for the staffs taking over from Stephen many years back, assisting with the overall maintenance, this game should be dead years ago.

Let`s give them our support and concrete advice as we try to move forward.

I know changes affect everyone, good and bad depending on races. I only have one suggestion to the admin, if it`s doable in the backends. It`s great to give everyone a chance to redistribute their research infra with econ changes. It will be fair and better for everyone, especially older player, if they are able to switch race keeping their infra research and some cols (taking some balancing into acc) after all the changes to ships and econ. Then player would not be able to complaint about how other race is better and better. They have a chance to be the race that they felt suit their playing style best.
H Helms{}Deep
04/04/2016 · 11:37 AM
I vote to keep, and keep the updates coming. We all have been waiting for a long time for things to start changing, and I`d like to see more.

I like the different ranges of ships( most will say because Im Terran) but lets face it, Terran is already weak vs Chem ships, why would I, or anyother Terran use all of the range Missile ships to get owned by strafez? If I was a Guard or Miner, I`d love to finally have some long range missile ships that are lacking in the shipyard. If I was Viral, Id be stoke by this update. Lets face the upkeep issue first, we all knew it was coming, so pipe down on that issue, it has been FAR too long that Virals get to run with almost free Marauder ships for years. But otherwise, this actually makes a Virals shipyard choices much more broad now. There are viable alternatives to common ships we see Virals have, so now they can actually reverse more ships to make their shipyard a bit more dynamic. Id be loving it for sure. I say thank you, and keep these updates coming.
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