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Neutral updates are here

Started by EphemeralEternity · 04/04/2016 · 02:55 AM · 168 replies · 2 reads
E EphemeralEternityOP
OP 04/04/2016 · 02:55 AM
First of all a big thanks goes out to BW for finding a very nice solution to integrating my new systems into GC this is the neutral updates i was talking about so long ago, E class was just a small part of this update. I`ve taken and made it so each neutral ship has an upkeep more in line with it`s racial ships, this will make balancing Econs for all races alot easier when we get to it this should also open up more fleet options for all races.

So first we have the 4 new E class ships This is the old E class thread for those of you who don`t know their stats.

Moving on Light corvette and Frigate have been removed from the game, LFD will be granted free upon restart no research needed and will remain unchanged for all races.

As you`ll notice the biggest change is Strafez, it has gotten a good deal more expensive for all, this will make UWing harder and more costly, it will also make it harder and more costly for those who like to fodder up to higher prs to research or dig and generally just avoid all the fun which i think we can all agree will bring more balance to the game runner has a cheaper upkeep to pr overall than fodder, but it`s also alot easier to kill.



Along with the above some research has been changed. the Light class researched has been swapped out for research concerning E class, Both fodder researches have been removed but fodder will be granted from creature research. we`ve also lowered the turn requirements on cluster research, some marauder ships and miner ships including G class lowered from 1,500 to 500 and Hun Li research has been lowered from 25,000 to 5,000 and Hun Xe research has been lowered from 25,000 to 2,500 turns further more BW came up with a way to augment turn requirements by servers. so then turn requirements for the research tree on ultra have been reduced by 15% fast 20% normal 30% and Slow 40%. Not none of these changes effect Infrastructure research


The Second Part of this is Fixing not only Viral upkeeps for captured and RE ships but we threw in collective as well so collectves don`t have destroy any ships they happen to capture for fear of crippling debt. also viral build cost is fixed







Everyone will have to click this link to update their shiplist Click here! Well any questions concerns comments or what ever you may have feel free to post in this thread

Edited by EphemeralEternity on 2016-04-04
R Renegade Admin
Admin 05/04/2016 · 10:18 AM
@ AM - You started in like 2009 and left for 4 years until you came back a few months ago, unless you`re someone whose just taken the game.

We won`t talk about your `UW`s,` or anything else. I`m not here to play hard ball these days, arguing with people who are in it to be negative and insulting. Is it that hard to just keep the posts constructive and regarding the updates?

If you honestly prefer as you say to - "Undo all these changes" and have nothing else changed, you can enjoy the game dying in stagnation. Fortunately for the rest of us who have been here awhile and love this game as a large part of our lives, you are the very tiny minority.

If that`s not your stance, and you haven`t been so clear then, please be constructive and reasonable.
B BadWolf
05/04/2016 · 10:17 AM
Productive conversation guys
A americanministry
05/04/2016 · 10:13 AM
I`ve played this game for 13 years ren done multiple uws and have seen you abuse vm for years you have no and I mean absolutely zero credibility to talk about this game.
O Omegian
05/04/2016 · 08:17 AM
Well Ren, my UW in 08` and 09` were both jokes on TB, they could have killed them but decided not to. That is the only reason why I was not sure about your post being entirely accurate hence my question on memory. I think my viral on Fast had maybe 40 hits in total on it, not because of inactivity, but because no one wanted to spend the artifacts to oppose it.
R Renegade Admin
Admin 05/04/2016 · 08:11 AM
Couple of valid points Omeg, though your memory is definitely a little hazy :P

Even recently though I haven`t had trouble making insane amounts of cash from the market on RT, so activity is definitely enough to make 20 + trillion.

But again, more to come soon with econ rebalancing and such. Not sure what `artifact` update worries ? Nothing has been announced yet.
O Omegian
05/04/2016 · 07:42 AM
Eh, Ren might need to refresh my memory, but from 04 to 09 I don`t recall many UW`s that didn`t have a bit of fodder in them, talking 200 mil to 400 mil pr. The other thing was you had more players creating more supply/more demand thus the ability to build such fleets was possible. Now with less players (1/3 of what we used to see on RT that were active daily) it doesn`t make sense from a cost perspective even with the ship upkeeps where they are to not have a decent bit of fodder. Fodder are quite weak considering all the ship build rate changes. Lastly, I think EE/BW were doing it every 6 months to spark activity since no one was even going to attempt UW`s as there was nothing worthwhile to obtain, but a name on the list and I guess bragging rights.

Actually, in the GCL days, there are people now who have just as much as him if not more regardless of the new dig fixes. The whole artifact update does concern me down the road regardless of pending changes that are unforseen.

Lastly, Cata, any guard with decent cash and activity can do that with or without gordoed empires. It is actually quite easy for a 5 day old guard to do massive amount of damage (400-500 mil pr of a 1.2 bil pr fleet) regardless of the ship type.
V Viper
05/04/2016 · 06:54 AM
Keep the updates.
S Surinami
05/04/2016 · 06:40 AM
Add me to keeping the update, please. Thanks EE.
C Cataclysm21
05/04/2016 · 05:20 AM
Adding to Renegade,

Don`t forget the Guardians were ment to be guardians of the galaxy and all living beings. They CAN`T do a UW. And taken into account that and the fact that they are supposed to be the guards of all, them climbing up high quick to stop UW`s seem like the legitimate reason for them to be still in the game. Don`t forget that they got the crabpiest income of all and high ship cost (not in upkeep, but initial buying $ and minerals). The few (2-4) heavy gordo`ed guards that are still out there might be a quick UW`er problem, but that should be the problem of the gordo, not the race.
R Renegade Admin
Admin 05/04/2016 · 04:58 AM
Since I know you are relatively new compared to a lot of the people posting AM - I`m gonna explain something to you real quick -

UW`s used to be MORE prevalent when they were HARDER back in the day. It was so common in fact that if a UW didn`t go off every 2 months, the admin staff would start a KalZul UW at 1.2b pr to reset the server.

People used to build 1.2b fleets of terran ships no problem, and that was with 3x lower build rates so it cost more. And there weren`t any broken rewards back then either.
- This just makes it so your fedmates have to actually defend your UW, rather than make 1-2 hits and then stay in DP the entire time.
- This just makes it so you have to do a little planning and have forethought, rather than randomly build some fodder and get an OP UW Ship because no one cares.

I do see your point about the UW being certainly attainable, as yes it is the only way to win the game in some players eyes, such as yourself.
But this isn`t making them nearly as much harder as you seem to believe, I suggest you take your own idea and do a little simming.

I think the more valid points personally are the affect of MD`s on people being able to attain such cash, but even in the GCL days it wasn`t impossible,
and there were more MD`s, and the mass of gordo`d guardians which make it hard to build up. These are things that will likely be addressed, as EE has so lovingly pointed out.
A americanministry
05/04/2016 · 04:21 AM
You guys need to sim 1.2bil fleet and the cost to build one without fodder in it.... For a miner: they need 30+ trillion credits just to build the first fleet and not anything during the actual uw.... Also take into account how hard finding a spot to build 500million fodder without a guardian basing up in an hour to take it down is.... Double or tripple the cost of fodder don`t 14x the cost of fodder.....
D DarthCaedus
05/04/2016 · 03:41 AM
my point was thats its not a miner issue. the admins say the change was because of aminers only so my point was if admins said that and think that why wasnt fodder just upped for aminers

yes its not the the best income perhaps but for example food on normal is usually under 5 sometimes even 3 and if i was a food producer i know there are 7 food producers or more on there and not enough players to buy it so thats not a fixed income either.

on RT its opposite. tax virals cant play sometimes for months due to food prices why If i was viral on RT i wouldnt go tax as the market changes to much.
O Omegian
05/04/2016 · 03:24 AM
It is also fine for other reasons besides just UWs and research/dig. But it is on a rarer case on TB and more prevalent on RT. There are sometimes other strategies as to why to use large fodder stacks.
H Helms{}Deep
05/04/2016 · 02:57 AM
DC- I am not sure where you think that the fodder upkeep is a Miner thing only. It is expensive for me and Im Terran. It is done like this to test it out, but building 600mil + of fodders to do a UW was useful because of its disgustingly low upkeep and huge solid hull.

I like the change, I want to see more as I believe things will start evening out
A americanministry
05/04/2016 · 02:14 AM
If you guys think UW should be harder then please add more attainable objectives to give us something else to Aim for as well
A Ankaar
05/04/2016 · 02:08 AM
Darth, Commercial terran isnt the best type of terran income. I know its A type, just not the best. When things become expensive, thats like me saying I cant uw because my agri viral income isnt high enough.

I realize its a bit tougher on TB servers to just change up income or even restart as a food producer - be months or years before you really even have a decent empire, and that sucks. But I suppose thats why I dont play TB, just a little too slow for me.

But point still stands - you chose an economy that was perhaps safer, but not peak income. Now you have trouble doing a UW. Thats not the fault of slightly more expensive fodder, its a problem with your empire
A Ankaar
05/04/2016 · 01:59 AM
nah Cat, people just get upset whenever something gets a tiny bit more difficult for them
C Cataclysm21
05/04/2016 · 01:38 AM
I already voted in favor for the new updates, however I would like to adress something that I`m noticing on this forum and chat.

Everyone keeps arguing about a certain race being to rich, other to powerfull, other to high upkeep/pr other to hard to kill...
Wasn`t the entire idea of the game just this? Every race has his own speciality;
-Terrans (omni and thus good starters)
-A.Miners (filthy rich and bad offense)
-Collective (....)
-Marauder (crazy offense)
-Viral (best ships due to RE, but limited in planets/econ)
-Guardian (Guardians of the galaxy and peacelovers, but crab econ)

It`s been a while since I played GC so I`m not entirely sure anymore what the general idea was. If we perfectly balance every race in terms of ships, then why not remove all the econ bonuses and just rename the races to factions and thus only aim at different ships. The fact that every race has his own unique strengths/weaknesses is part of the challenge and you`ll have to decide wich race suits your playing style most. Be it hoarder, scrooge, defender or attacker.

I meant this not against BW and EE, but towards everyone. Aren`t we losing sight of challenge and diversity this game has? Aren`t we now just all arguing to get our own side better and the opponent weaker, wich is normal human behavior? And yes I know, I did it too
D DarthCaedus
05/04/2016 · 01:18 AM
so your thinking is miners abuse fodder then increase miner upkeep only. As a commerical terran on a slower server to uw is near impossible now unless you have large planets which isnt always possible
S Stargaters
05/04/2016 · 01:06 AM
Just going to give a quick opinion.

I am a little worried that the E class is a bit overpowered, and I only hope that if it is, it will be dealt with in coming updates. Miners only answer to E class, as far as I can tell, is more E class, though I haven`t simmed anything, that looks to be the case. My other reservation is that E class just made one of Miners best ships fairly useless; both the Chlorite and Calcite are overshadowed by the new ships. Except for the build rate, this is likely true of the Lyth with the Aurora addition as well.

As for the upkeep changes, from my perspective, I would have rather seen an increase in required minerals than an increase in credits required, as this would force everyone`s hand on the market and liven it up a bit. Miner upkeep is already really high for all ships so I was a bit bummed to see that it is going to cost more now to incorporate Neutral ships to stem upkeep when building.

Those things said, I wish this thread was more of a discussion and less mud slinging. Everyone has their opinions, and I hope the suggestions and comments on the new ships are being taken seriously, because a lot of GC players are very invested in the game and I hope it doesn`t turn anyone away. I also think that some of the concerns being expressed here are completely deserved and, if it turns out to be a problem, I hope that you are willing to take a step back and consider working on adjusting and balancing the new ship lists to address issues.
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