Commercial Terran

Commercial terrans getting a raw deal? Not commercial marauders? Or Agri miners? At least you have an option of being independent. Tunnel vision comes at a cost.

If you look at what i wrote,

"And I point at the fact that practically onle food terrans and tax miners contribute to the generation of cash and food... "

I think that is not so opposing to your statement. I also consider cash a resource in this game. But you know that a tax miner easily can make 100mil/turn, while a guard would typically make 500k-4mil per turn. It is more than an order of magnitude different. So the few tax miners tend to dominate the cash generation. Why not equalise it between races?

Having thought about it, taxer, guards and commercial might not provide things for the market, but they provide all of the money for the server.
In an economic sense this is how money comes into the system, it leaves when ships get blown up. So we can`t just have food, goods and minerals producing empires, or there would be no money...

As to how the market works, well that is a different question to the one of commercial terrans getting a raw deal. Which is especially bad on the turn based servers as it is hard to change empires.

I agree with that sentiment Pistol.

I guess we just disagree on what makes this game fun. I would love that the market was more robust, and that you could choose tax or food and be more sure that you dont have to play periodically, because the market is unstable.

And I point at the fact that practically onle food terrans and tax miners contribute to the generation of cash and food... So everything would run better if more races could help the market.

To me the very differently scaled economies of the different races does not add value. It only makes it much harder to manipulate markets and make empires with cheap ship upkeep and hence little income gain a lot, without having to do anything for it. People transfer cash to these empires more than ever, it has become part of the game.

So basically i would like to get back to a game where it is not about who transfers the most money to a guard and marauder, and then let them build up, but a game where the differences in ships and fighting for colonies is what it is about.

I am not talking about domination, I am talking about the lack of targets and the common 2xpr attacks due to small numbers of feds and ease of getting into the top 5. Doesn`t matter what race you are.

1. Yes you can, while it is difficult that is part of those empires doing it. I look at normal and fast Terran empires as an example. Domination ranks is a whole other thing, we are talking economy to fight and such which is possible and I`d an invalid argument. Triply, artis have nothing to do with this as most empires don`t use btcs or stcs for regular fighting.

Note, I am biased as I have been a ln unpaid 500 planet terranon fast and 250 planet Terran on normal and did not have these issues. Also don`t dig since its during my sleep cycle on TB servers.

Well for the turn based servers you can`t build fast enough or have enough targets to properly protect clusters, so being explorable is the logical way to go. This is doubly so if you are not in the dominant fed on these servers. Triply so if you are not in the artifacts digging time zone.

Being explorable on RT means you don`t have to pay every single day, which is why I am an explorable mineral miner.


Remember the game works differently on the turn based servers than RT, which is where commercial terrans suffer more

Rag, he was using an example of a known issue, but to counter your point about clusters, more and more empires rather have a great economy and still be explorable instead of planet hoarding. Sure some people still will planet horde, but it`s trending to the minority.

The other problem with clusters is now most people will vm or build vm knowing their clusters are in the line. So I don`t see many new empires not giving up clusters by diligent hunting.

Not sure what you mean by RT market being a hyper inflation unless you mean only recently due to many people who were market dependent switched races, but on average the market outside of food has not fluctuated enough to be hyper inflated but more deflated.

"This would make it much harder to be the one rich tax miner that supply all fed friends (guards and marauders) with unreasonable amounts of money compared to their ship cost."

You don`t have to be a "rich tax miner" to do that mate. And it doesn`t take a lot for guards and marus to be financed with "unreasonable amounts of money". One or two billion credits is enough to finance either of those races for a long time (esp on turn base), more than achievable for ANY high income race. And if those maru or gaurds have a C3 (esp a high loyalty C3), these amounts can be easily reached without relying on the market.

But your other points are also broadly vague, and money transfers will still be a thing between high-researched empires when it comes to financing a UW. I`m skeptical that the "decrease in opportunity" will be as less as you think it will be.

The primary problem with the markets is a combination of low levels of active players and (in RT`s case) hyper-inflation of credits and materials. We just need more people to sign up and stick around, like in 2004-2005 when c2s and c3s could be won with a bit of diligent hunting inside of a month.

I like planet mods....and remove all arties. Or maybe have some arties affect planet mods. Or add projects to level up cluster mods or something.. adjusting econ balance accordingly of course

Mineral cap, going to say no Ankaar, way to many times from experience do empires blow through trillions of minerals. I would be fine if you took away cash artis then, otherwise the cap should not be implemented. My UW alone blew through 2 trill worth of minerals. You can`t just say let`s reduce the cap without looking at it from all angles.

I disagree. I think the wide variance in economies is what makes the game more fun. When you take away, or even just reduce the characteristics of the races to only a small variation, then it becomes less fun, and everyone becomes whatever race has the most op ships.

I DO think some things could be adjusted though. I think it would be great to see another race other than miner get a solid industry income - theres never cg`s at 4 because if a miner wants to land x, theres almost no reason to go cg over tax, and if you dont want to planet x, youre mineral miner.

On top of that, I think it would be nice if cg`s sold to population for slightly more, allowing them to be posted on market for a slightly higher price - OR have cg producing races produce more, and increase consumption rates. This one IS a bit harder to balance because it not only benefits cg producers, but also taxers. Because of that, I suppose the first option is probably better - selling to pop for a higher price, allowing 5 or even 6 priced cg`s to be profitable instead of price 4, while not giving the taxers a massive boost (theyre selling for a higher price to pop, but also paying more for them. Makes Cg`s a more viable income while not changing boost to pop empires much.

I would also lower the mineral storage space. Wealthy empires buy out whatever they can as like a backup to cash, or to prevent being arti`d and losing their cash. I understand the strategy, and I really cant blame anyone for doing it, but it does make it hard to get minerals at times. Id totally be ok with minerals being capped at 50 or 100 million. Nobody needs more than that to fight, and it would help prevent the stockpilers from taking all of it.

I also think guards should have to eat food. On gc they dont eat food at all? On uc I think they eat 80% less food than normal races. I think thats quite fair. It still gives them an advantage, but at the same time, does mean theyre still contributing to market som

If something should be redone in this game i would say that the upkeeps of ships should be on the same level for all races and the viable incomes for each races should also be equalised, so that money transfers become way less of an opportunity... This would make it much harder to be the one rich tax miner that supply all fed friends (guards and marauders) with unreasonable amounts of money compared to their ship cost. And also make it harder to finance others UWs.

At the same time i think the tax/food market need more contributors to be more stable, so if more races had tax as a viable income path it would stabilise the market.

Darth simply stated that if you removed food from the equation, mineral miners would be the only market left

I am going to go ahead and assume that removing food from the equation doesnt just mean selling it, but also ignoring the demand to buy it coming from taxers.

That would be an interesting concept, all races have to contribute to the market or their income potential is reduced greatly. I think that is a fair concpet and something I think the game is heading towards more from what I gather. Oh wait, most top feds on every server contribute to the market.

Your forgetting taxers and other empires who buy food and minerals. Look at the whole picture.

Terrans sell food, buy minerals if they are agri, comm only buys minerals.
A. Miner sells mins/cgs or eats a ton of food and buys minerals.
I don`t need to do all the races to show that others contribute do I?

punishment for not particpating in the market. thats a joke. miner puts most stuff on the market. apart from food if you took food out of the equation sure punish the rest of the races you morons

Punishment for not participating in market should be in increased on slower servers where the market is bare.

I agree... Commercial is the safe route. You will always be guaranteed income, nomatter the state of the market. So in that sense the reward for soing this should be minimal. It is fine as it is.

slow normal and maybe fast needs increased terran commerical. ultra and RT do not. each server is different slower servers needs increase faster ones dont