Guardian Balancing Discussion

Idea #1 Version A
i disagree with Energy Shield 99% i think this should be 50 and, Kinetic Shield, or Missile Shield should be 99% no one spams energy ships so having 99% isent that great


K.Hun-Zen

Energy Shield 99%
Kinetic Shield 99% to 50%
Missile Shield 25% to 50%
Chemical Shield 25% to 50%

On the topic of K class shields, I like the idea of giving them only one major resistance (99% mod), but bumping everything else to 50 if it was at 25 before seems a little weird to me. I think I might just be partial to them having one sort-of-weakness if they`re gonna have basically an immunity, rather than one immunity and 3 half-damage mods.

GM, if your entire reason to disagree with a proposed change is "it`s always been that way," it`s probably counterproductive for you to post it. I understand the "why does it need to be changed, why isn`t it ok as it is" point of view, but when that`s the first thing said in a discussion after changes are proposed it really just derails the discussion.
If you want to contribute to the discussion productively, however, you could present specific reasons that you disapprove of the changes, like "changing the range from 4 to 2 makes it so that 3 range ships now hit first on both offense and defense, and that means that it won`t work well against T. Maru and Light Corvettes, when the ship`s primary role before was as an anti-corvette ship and the race doesn`t have many other options which are as effective." (manufactured example)
But just in general, if your immediate response to a change is "why even change it", consider waiting for a while to see if there`s any discussion, or posting some counter-arguments to the change. That will make most discussions a lot more useful for everyone. =)

y does the k class need changed at all we have to spend 25k turns for those

I found tourm/ruby are best used to wipe those that spam fodder up high in pr because you can high from maximun under and do a lot of damage. However with all the guards atm spamming tourm/ruby is useless because if they hit k class they will do nothing and get wiped.

I strongly disagree, and with all due respect nrefing the kinetic class was a step in the right direction as well, now ruby and tourms make great support ships in stacks . their have been updates and new ships that help prevent the kinetic class from being spammed out of control. we dont need to make any changges to guard that will encourage or improve more spamming.

I think that the Tourmaline range 4, and Ruby range 6, Should get 1 more added range. These ships ust to get used a lot Now there the slowest to build of the guard ships, Die easy, and u don`t see them anymore.

Name Tourmaline
Class Fighter
Weapon 8,000
Energy Damage 0
Kinetic Damage 8,000
Missile Damage 0
Chemical Damage 0
Hull 15,000
Range 4
Scanner rating 250
Power rating 6,510

Cost per unit 153,414
Upkeep 864

1 turn produces 6.0

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
Name Ruby
Class Corvette
Weapon 13,000
Energy Damage 0
Kinetic Damage 13,000
Missile Damage 0
Chemical Damage 0
Hull 16,000
Range 6
Scanner rating 350
Power rating 11,268

Cost per unit 237,432
Upkeep 1,220

1 turn produces 5.0

If anyone is interested here is how high each Guard Ship Will Climb in 45 turns

#1. G.Diamond Starbase 139,532 Climbs the fastest but its a starbase so not much harm it could do it should be left alone for defence

#2. G.Corundum Destroyer 55,028 This is the main spam ship a Guard could use its a good spam ship when left alone but its easily wiped out by alot of ships

The other Guard ships I dont see any reason y the build rates should be dropped more Guards are suposed to be able to build fast Its why i went guard in the first place

http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss339/CronicEvil/untitled-1.jpg

This isnt about tax empires that cant feed themselves. This is about the fact that guard has become alot easier to play and the majority of high pr players are guardian at the moment.

Now if we decide to nerf guard to balance the server thats not to say it cant be undone or improved in the future it just means that it may be needed to keep guard in line with the other races to keep things balanced right now.

Other than build rate I feel guard is fine all the way around. Whats to stop any other player whos a non guard from gordoing up massive amounts of land? Nothing cause they already have its just that guard as an offensive race not only builds fast but is more effective in spamming to attack than stacking.

If I remember right 45 turns in diamonds is around 10 mill pr and the other fast moving most often used ships can build 2 mill- almost 4 mill pr in 45 turns. With alternating shield mods this can be hard to combat and its guess work some of the time. If guard was geared to stacking more by decreasing by build rate by 5-10% to the cruiser and deystroyer class, redesign corundom with no retal to be more of a support ship then a worm on a hook I feel its a move in the right direction.

And when looking atvthe races that dominate the ranks the picturenis this. (pr above 5mil)

Guardian 6
Viral 8
Marauders 1
Terrans 3
Miner 3
Collective 2

Viral being the top spot is clearly vevause ofbthe cheap marauder ships.
Guardian second i believe is because guard used to have op ships (before the recent br update on alle the other races) and because guards benefit a lot from playing the market.

This goes for rt. I thibkbthebpicture is a lot different at all the tb servers. Anyway... Your way of counting makes a wrong picture. You cant cut it at top 50. Thats a cutting pr of about 800k which means you counted all the tax empires and the non-tax empires with a fleet. If you instead count the empires down to 200k pr it will be a more appropriate picture of the state of rt.

Guardian 19
Viral 15
Marauders 4
Terrans 6
Miner 21
Collectives 4

Current Top 50 Population

Guardians 17
Virals 12
Marauders 2
Terrans 4
Aminers 11
Collectives 4

I think if there was a super agri terran the food prices will be as low in the past and tax virals would emerge quickly and be able to wrestle back against the guardians.

maybe viral`s agriculture mod could be increase thus more food could be produce?

As Guardian on Normal, I dont think many changes are necessary. Moreover, lack of income seems to be my biggest problem :)

Overall, ArchAng3l`s review (story line) hits the nail on the head!!

Just my 2cent, before making changes to guard, be it on their income or ships, pls think through what role should guard serve. Should they be a UW fighter since they can`t UW themselves? Or should they be on the same level as any other race regardless of UW fighting at all?

It`s only that we choose one of the above path that we are able to tweak guard accordingly.

Currently guard still serve as a UW fighter:
High buildrate - No brainer, you need to build to high pr fast to stop uw
Low income - Since guard already outbuild other race, this is to ensure they could not outlast other race at high pr fight as a balance. Alot of time building to high pr is a one-way trip for guard. Hence their cash is limited through low income.
Low upkeep - with low income, you need to have low upkeep to make sure at least fighting at normal pr is possible for normal fighting
Low range high hull - Since guard already build fast, you can`t out range other race to give them a chance of decent hit

Well that`s the current guard. I don`t mind having a lower buildrate, better range ship, better income, with higher upkeep since I love stacking. But that will make guard lose it appeal and still with a unfair ability of unable to uw.