Guardian Balancing Discussion

I think the corund would be a better queen/king fighter with like 8 range pure kin damage and decent shields vs chem, since the corund already needs a retro fit.

I still think a ships that can beat queens and kings on offensive would be a idea. What can you do today if you wanna build a stacked fleet and know you are up against queens, kings or runners? The best option is to try to block them with fodder. I think giving the paid ship Zen this role would be a good idea. Remove all the kinetic, energy and missile resists and make it immune to chemical dmg.

Name K.Hun-Zen
Class Destroyer
Weapon ??
Energy Damage 0
Kinetic Damage ??
Missile Damage 0
Chemical Damage 0
Hull ??
Range 4
Scanner rating ??
Power rating 39000

Cost per unit ??
Upkeep ??
1 turn produces 1.0

Mineral Required
Mineral Store Required
Terran Metal ??
Red Crystal ??
White Crystal ??
Rutile ??
Composite ??
Strafez Organism ??

Ship Attributes
Defense Modifier
Energy Shield 0 %
Absorption Shield 0 %
ECM 0 %
Ionized Hull + 99 %

"guard has high hull, low range, and good shield mods as well as the best build rates. if you take from one of these categories you must add to the other to compensate."

yes, i agree with this completely. Pls don`t just take away the BR and then forget about all other things. Pls take the whole thing into consideration. Also please have a thought about if you think guard should continue to play its traditional role of uw fighter. Then we could balance out guard ship with the role of guard in mind too.

Btw, if possible take a look at our SB. I support removing the insane BR of our base and in exchange, give us something more useful :)

here is a decent example of a usefull redesigned version of G.Corundom . The focus is to make it into a long range support ship to encourage more stacking rather than spaming. no def and no reatl have been added to increase usefullness and make it a bad choice to use in a spam.

SHIPS - G.Corundum

Name G.Corundum
Class Destroyer
Weapon 16,000
Energy Damage
Kinetic Damage 16,000
Missile Damage
Chemical Damage
Hull 33,000
Range 8
Scanner rating 4100
Power rating 35,028

Unit(s) in fleet 0
Cost per unit 79,653
Upkeep 5,700
1 turn produces 2.0

Mineral Required
Mineral Store Required
Terran Metal 0
Red Crystal 60
White Crystal 60
Rutile 08
Composite 30
Strafez Organism 0

Ship Attributes
Defense Modifier
Energy Shield + 25 %
Absorption Shield + 25 %
ECM - 15 %
Ionized Hull - 45 %

if anyone has a link to the old guard ship list I would like everyone to see what we had to work with back in the day, maby then some of you will realize how easy we have it now. Im willing to change with the times cause guard is all I have ever really played and will continue to play no matter what so when I lend my opinion its not just for my sake but for guard as a race and a piece of gc heritage.

I like Bws idea of a corundom redesign with a higher range and no retal and im curious to see some of the specs so I can try it out in the sim. im not sure how I feel about a long range K.Class ship it just seems a little non traditional.

guard has high hull, low range, and good shield mods as well as the best build rates. if you take from one of these categories you must add to the other to compensate.

Overall I prefer guard to remain traditional but im open minded so we will see.

Dont Mess with the K Class ships at all

Redesigning one of the K class ships would be a good idea, I never understood why guards should get the Zen too, its too many immune ships. Though I really hope you consider two things here:
1: Dont make guards impossible to play on TB servers
2: Who will take down the virals who spam cheap maru ships if the guards cant?

I may be the only one, but I actually think the latest BR update evened things out a lot.

Redesigning 1 K class wouldn`t make Guardians less of a UW killer, infact depending on the design it might promote guardians building 8 -10 stack fleets just to use the new flanking-style K class to more effect.

Though if the problem lies with the defensive nature of having 3 k class in a stack rather then the other guardian class ships then the Hun Zen could possibly be remodel as a G Class ship which i think is the best answer.

Though making it built slower then tourmaline probably would be beneficial to low pr guardians but not suitable for the uw defending. Having uw as frequently as uc is probably not wanted as well.

Generally Kalzul ships have 3 stacks of 99 immunity while the guardian version has 2 stacks of immunity further reducing it for balancing is understandable though i feel it kind of undermines the race ship.

I wonder if there was an earlier ship balancing that change the shielding of guardian energy shields to spread out more have anything thing to do with the current state of battling against guardians?

Would it be better if guardians reverted back to an older shielding stats or something?

I would agree with Raist. I would be for changing one of the K.class ships other than hun li. Re moding all of them will change the entire structure of how the race is played including fighting uw`s. If you want to redesign zen as a paid ship thats fine. If you want to redesign corundom thats fine as well. But nerfing all K.class ships after we have already had our kinetic class nerfed and other races got new paid ships and numerous tweaks to build rates this is asking for trouble.

K.class is beaten very easily especially at equal pr, if you cant handle k.class learn how to stack from someone who can.

My idea was to basically to not have k class be immune to kin/energy at the same time which makes things balanced i think. First it allows a lot of other ships to be useful vs k class depending on which you might hit. It add more variety and sure you can spam then but there is a lot more that can kill them now and they are not awesome with a kinda meh attack/pr ratio but I think was the fact it had double 99% shields.

Also i don`t think the Xe with 99% missile will be a big deal because that ship isn`t very strong offensively and atm would be more of a missile ship blocking at which point you could easy use a different ship to easily kill it.

For a fez killer I think the corund would be the best to fit into that role as a pure kin long range ship.

I`m a supporter of redesigning one of the K class into being a low pr high upkeep destroyer more in line with how the rest of the races are. Infact i`d be cool with the BR being even lower than Tourms are currently.

Maybe if 3 k class is too much, why don`t remove one of them? Guard used to have 2 anyway.. and I don like to have 3 k class in my stack too, since it will make the stack more vulnerable to multi missile stack. Guard could use a smaller long range ship such similar to pike, chlor, or thor as a paid ship. This will give guard another dimension to stack, since although stacking small neutral ship such as sword is possible, it`s simply too expensive to worth it.

Although other that that I`m open to Idea 1 version A.

looking for starbase redesign updates

Pete, I think at least part of the reason that zeroing the shields and doubling the hull isn`t done is the system calculates the PR based on the ship`s stats including hull, but not including shields. So the all-positive mods make it functionally having more hull, without having to automatically have more pr.

Its an interesting thought to change the turn cost for k.class. 25k is not a lot at rt, but at any tb servers is quite a lot. I mean at slow it would take something 1.5year to research it if all turns are put into it.

Make it so that you can get it more easily at slower servers.

I think when something is suggested it is also the person who suggest the new things job to argue why this is better than the old ship. If this is not done in a suggestion it is ok to ask the person why this is better than what we used to have.

A general comment would be that having all the resists set at 50% would be the same as having them at 0% with double hull. Does this make k.class too chunky?

If the resist are changed according to squaks suggestion i have a feeling these three ships would make an awesome spam. I would probably stop using the other ships completely - except tourm anf ruby when i need to kill fez.

I think its ok to have something that is immune to kin and energy, but i dont really like missile immunity. Remember that guards have to be handled with caps at tb servers, and missile immune ships are the the hardest to deal with with caps. A suggestion could be to make one of the k.class immune to chemicals? This would give guard a ships that can deal with fez in stacked fleets. This is missing now, as broads arent a viable option to build into a stacked fleet today.

i like the idea of changing k class - if not for balance, then just for the sake of change.

But i also agree with GM, what ever changes are made the 25k turns better be justified. 25k turns seems ok for Xe/Zen, and sure you can get Li for free by doing missions, but not everyone one wants to gimp their empire for one ship.

If you cant change the turn cost internally, then maybe allow admins to gift Hun-Li once the player has completed 12,500 turns of research. If that is to much of a shortcut then gidt after 17,500 turns have been invested (5k to go).