Guardian Balancing Discussion

The point of tyr having kinetic is so terren is slightly less vulnerable to fezz. That little bit of kinetic goes a long way against queens and runners even kings if the pr is right.

nope nope nope nope nope. Infact, where`s Dr.Cox from Scrubs to sing the Wrong Wrong Wrong Wrong song?

Oh, and bring back the original ruby. You know the one im talking about. The one from 03.

I know this mainly about guard ships but while we are on the subject of changing k.class, suppose we could adjust the Tyr a little bit. Purely eliminate all other damage types except for missile, and that at 8000. Range 8.

This would allow it to be more effective as a high pr missile ship capable of building fast enough to maybe catch a guard and pose a genuine threat to k.class. it just seems to me that a ship that size having piddly weapons and then huge missile is silly. Nirv has 3 types in close to equal power. Herc has two, one 2x the other. Even k.class! So... Just remove the nonsense and give tyr what she really needs, the power of 8 Thors - not 7 with a couple fenrirs...

Bring back the old corundom from 05!

how about instead of nerfing gaurd, we buff everyone else. who doesnt like feeling overpowered.

Corrundum is a very good ship at TB. Just spam it alone or with quartz. Then its very hard for anything but other guards to deal with it (Guards are quite rare at TB servers). On the ultra guard its my favourite ship fir controlling the ranks.

Not gunna lie, since I came back the K Hun-Zen has quickly become one of my favorites.

However I feel like messing around with K class too much could potentially be a major problem for guards that took the time to sink that many turns into them, and this has an even bigger impact for TB guards.

I would support the idea of making one of the K class more geared towards aggression, right now as DG likes to say, they are very large fodder. and the Xe is the biggest. I think the Xe is a good candidate for an aggressive overhaul because it`s not a ship you see used very often, it is avoided almost as regularly as the G corundum. Xe as it stands right now has an absurd build rate and an almost pure defensive nature, on a race that is built around offense. Guards have always been about hitting first to avoid being put into the bad defensive position, lets keep that strategy with the Xe, it serves no real purpose in the game right now outside of spamming it up to get into a defensive position, which I feel should be avoided.

As far as the corundum goes, I dunno, a ship that weak to chemical damage that fires kinetic weaponry is a bit odd imo. I don`t think I like the idea of making it a fez killer though because we already have enough of those. The Tourmaline and Ruby both kill fodder easily and build at around the same pace, this I feel is balanced. No need to add a faster building ship into that equation imo.

The corundum however should be remade to be more useful, as to how, I`m not sure on. Maybe make it a more aggressive version of the Topaz, IE build more towards dealing with the heavy missile ships of other races, but keep it more aggression based?

Sorry for the wall of text and all, but these are my thoughts.

Yep i know ruby and tourm do well against those ships. But it does not change the fact that when you are outranged by queens or kings the best option is to go careful. And if you have to go careful spamming is most often a better choice.

and tyr spams wont beat sapphire spams

sure, voila and done. Li spams won`t beat tyr spams.

Edited by Raistilin on 2012-08-18

can we make it so hun li spam doesnt beat everything lol

Not sure if you`re trolling or just blatantly ignoring what we`ve been saying however... Gm if you want us to actually take what you say under advisement, you`re going to need to provide details as to why you believe it shouldn`t be touched.

dont mess with k class

I dont see a prob with king and queen spams, ruby and tourm can handle over 2x pr on aggressive and still survive to the second wave.

10 mill in queen and king on norm vrs 5 mill ruby and tourm = fail lost 40%
10 mill in queen and king on agg vrs 5 mill ruby and tourm = fail lost 73.6%

Obviously all fezz was lost.

Yep. Range 9 might be OP If the buildrate is high. But with less than range 9 it does not add a tool to take out those Kings or queens on normal or offense.

It is nonsense to say that guards with stacked fleets is the best way to take down a uw. This is one of the few situations were turnefficiency really matters and If the uw is well protected it is better to USe 45 or 90 turns and shoot. Emmys are in most cases BY FAR the Best option for doing this because it has range 9, adding another range 9 ship Will give guards a similar tool. Thats why i say make a Queen killer that dies to everything else by giving it chemical immunity.

The reason my redesigned corundom is only range 8 is I feel that a range 9 pure kinetic ship would be op. This way the v.class can still hit first, queens and kings can still be used in a defencive way or if they flank my redesigned corundom its game over. I didnt make this design to be an offensive nightmare I made it to be great support ship for stacking, the no defence special will allow everything to flank without returning fire and the range and no retal make it a great defence ship and anti spam as well. Its a balanced design that can beat but adds a tool that guard currently doesnt have.

And that is exactly one reason why people tend to spam at high PR. You know its highly likely you will be up against fez. So what can you do about fez at high PR - spam your ships with most effective hull and go careful.

And to those of you who think guards should just use Broads. There is a reason why this almost never seen in practice at high PR. Money wise and turnwise its WAY too expensive. There will always be better alternatives.

I dont necesarily think guards should have a range 9 ship with kinetic damage, as i have a feeling that would be too good against UW fleets. (Might be wrong). The suggestion i made would be very efficient against runners, kings, queens, cronus and borr. But it would be useless most other ships. And it would due to the low range be easy to deal with with capital ships.

well if guard really need to take out queen on offense, we still have broadsword.. though very expensive.. hence usually I would use high hull like quartz and hit on careful :)

I would love to have a high range energy weapon ship though.. we have good range missile ship, high damage kinetic ship, but not ready a decent energy ship with good offensive power..

But you do realize kings and queens also has range 8?? You need to design a ship with range 9 to be able to outrange it.