Maru income is too powerful

just because you`ve collected lots of planets and land making your empire hard to defend does NOT mean the system is in any way broken or unbalanced..it means you did a fantastic job building a great empire and now have to deal with the consequences associated with having it. you shouldnt be able to keep that many planets or have that much land without putting an incredible amount of effort in.

so..when you said

"Land for land, agri marus make more than aminers do"

you actually meant something like: `miners have the highest per turn income but also a really high upkeep so in reality maru`s actually make more` ? interesting, lol

anyone with half a brain would realize standalone income is definitely still something worth considering because..you know..people can..like..stockpile :O

i`m curious, how does nerfing maru income help what you yourself say is the real problem: miner upkeep and base pr? either you or grantweep (cba to check back) said a 1-2m base pr is tolerable..but 5-6m is just too much. if that is really the case, the question is simple: why DONT you just plunder down? because you shouldnt have to? because a maru with similar land would make `almost` as much as you? sounds to me like your making a pretty solid case for switching to maru then...and yet, there`s almost no maru`s in the entire game. as i already said, just because a massive base pr makes your game difficult does not mean base pr is unfair or ubalanced..it means base pr is working exactly as intended.

and..should i take the opening salvo of insults to mean you`ve nothing constructive left to add? lol

dont try arguing with me JJ unless you actually have a point.

Because you have nothing. Air. Junk. You have said nothing new to this conversation and you have contributed even less. Only reason why I`m responding to you because at least you are posting facts. Even if each fact you post is either taken out of context, false or doesn`t help your argument at all.

When I say income, I dont feel like repeating myself and saying income:upkeep everytime. Anyone with HALF a brain would realize that income means nothing without considering upkeep.

First of all, Im not even talking about ships here. I believe that in general ships are decently balanced as there is no one super power ship, and most races have one ship that take 1 ship from another race out.

That being said, since you decided to bring it up, I`ll have to give you a spanking.

Average weapon and average hull is a meaningless statistic. Try an.alysing the ships that people use more often. For miners: Lyth/lictor/arag. For maru Pyth/angel

check out the stats on pyth/angel. You`ll notice that they are pretty good and stand up to the stats of lyth/lictor/arag quite well. In fact, you`ll notice if you ever did behindysis into ships that lyth is one of the BEST ships in the game. However, angel is one of the few ships that can actually take lyth on turn for turn.

Ships are balanced, they are not the overwhelming concern here. The problem is:

Income:upkeep and Base PR.

Your move, JJ.

u sure about that?

taken directly from EE`s miner and maru threads, a miner with 200k land with cg`s and food at 20 makes 77.7m profit per turn. a maru with 200k land and food at 20 makes 54.6m profit per turn

of course, this is the `worst` case scenario for miners and the `best` case for maru`s...meaning in reality the miner will make even more than the maru than is illustrated here.

now, if you had said the crux of your argument was contingent on the upkeep of both races..than thats a different story. its very true maru`s can get higher on their income than a miner can on its income. however, compare the average hull and average attack of them at their highest pr and you will see miners have more average attack and average hull than a maru...despite being considerably lower in pr. couple in the fact that miners require something like 1/3 of the turns to get there...pretty sure at LEAST compared to miners, maru are NOT overpowered.

EDIT: my mistake, i was looking at a couple wrong columns when comparing the average hull and attack. the rest is accurate, however.

Edited by request

Edited by GhostofJ on 2012-05-03

JJ: read, high base PR would be acceptable if we actually did have the highest income possible. We do not.

Land for land, agri marus make more than aminers do and marus have much less base PR. This is the crux of my arguement, how are you so dense that you do not understand this?

i cant help but lol at the argument that a super high base pr is somehow anything but a player`s own fault. you choose to have that much land/pop and for that choice you get rewarded the highest income attainable (with the only possible exclusion being the other main miner path: mining). just because having a 5-6m base pr makes your game incredibly difficult does not mean base pr is unfair or unbalanced...it means base pr is working exactly as intended.

My counters are showing now

And marus only having space for 10 colonies suck so bad but i just change terrain having 15 colonies now maru 10 kind of sucks

Ive been trying out the Maru Race and i have a paid acount but i have noticed that All My Counters Do Not Show up on my Counterlist Anyone know Why

I`ve read this all over i say plunder the Maru its teh only way out

Feeling for them has absolutely no relevance. The point of racial balancing is to make things more fair and equatable between the races and their players, each with their own respective advantages and disadvantages. As I said and you put bluntly as them getting "Screwed", would hardly be fair or equatable.

I will agree, having played everything sans Guardian and all economic models, plunder maru is one of the easiest to establish and maintain beyond comm Terran. Even still, it comes with it`s own challenges, all of which have intensified immeasurably in the last couple years. Just "playing the lower ranks" is no longer a plausible option unless you are particularly fond of starvation.
I
n the game`s current condition, the race is completely fine. But I DO still agree that a market price-cap would be a great addition. So at least we jive on something here....

(I have no idea if this post is at all legible. I`m operating on two hours of sleep and 28 hours of work in the last 48 hours. lol.)

Moops, maru ships have some crazy stats. They might not build the fastest (even then, angel/pyth build decently fast already!), but they can hurt a lot.

I understand what you`re saying grant, but after taking a look at ee`s data again, I see that maru is actually the slowest race in the game. Even the 3 fastest ships (including pyth angel of course) puts them at the third slowest. I`d say powerful ships for cheap is well deserved. Especially given the other points regarding low colony cap, no explore, and killable.

I wasn`t suggesting that maru needs to build fast, I`m suggesting that the fact that 95% of their shiplist builds SLOW, it makes them a less desirable and less effective race to use, despite their high income vs upkeep ratio

Yes MD, angel builds fast. That one ship, now lets look at all the rest of the ships, even with angel the average build rates of the maru ships are almost the slowest in the game... So I`m not sure what your point is there :/

marus are fine

Moops: pyth and angel build pretty fast enough.

In fact it`s their stats that make them pretty decent to play with. But you bring up a good point that I haven`t shared yet....it might be nice to give maru a bit of a nerf to income, but give them a 3rd cap ship, or boost thresher BR by a lot or something.

nerf to income = something like 2x agri mod/2x plunder mod + 3x shipupkeep or something like that.