The staff have never been to keen on interfering with the market, but we`ve been half tossing around the idea to do something with it.
Now this something would have to be in the form of giving an npc resources and posting on the market.
For example....lets say if food went above 35 on normal for a day or two...the staff could give an npc x amount of food and make him post it at 28 or what ever the predetermined cost would be
the same thing could happen with minerals or what have you...
so first off we would need to discuss pro`s and cons of doing such things for example.
Pro, would be so that there could always be minerals on the market, Food could stay low enough so that tax terrans/virals could still use turns.
Con. Would be such things could only happen when staff that could perform the task were on...so if it runs out your out til then. Those who produce the resources would feel as if they`re losing potential profit.
We would also need to discuss posting prices for various servers and or limits on amounts that could be posting within a given time frame if any...
Basically any market tampering by the staff would potentially be a very volatile and fragile and would have the potential to do more harm than good.
I know this wouldn`t be a perfect solution if implemented
but for no now we could discuss it and see if it`s even worth trying.
Staff Interference in the Mark
Started by EphemeralEternity
· 21/04/2012 · 05:44 AM
· 73 replies
· 1 read
Okay...you better not be acting dumb here:
Every 10 population you have that`s 1 base PR. Taxers need a lot of population to tax and make money. So the base PR will be huge since they pump all infra into housing.
Agri empires only need enough population to build infra, so they only pump the minimum housing they need to pump rest of their land into agriculture. As a result, you don`t have as much base PR...
Also, the more infra a taxer has, the HIGHER it`s base PR. That`s another aspect of tax vs agri that`s often overlooked. If you are agri and you increase your infrastructure, your base PR doesn`t change, but you make a ton more food.
Every 10 population you have that`s 1 base PR. Taxers need a lot of population to tax and make money. So the base PR will be huge since they pump all infra into housing.
Agri empires only need enough population to build infra, so they only pump the minimum housing they need to pump rest of their land into agriculture. As a result, you don`t have as much base PR...
Also, the more infra a taxer has, the HIGHER it`s base PR. That`s another aspect of tax vs agri that`s often overlooked. If you are agri and you increase your infrastructure, your base PR doesn`t change, but you make a ton more food.
Unless I don`t understand how base pr works, everybody has the same base per pop. A miner with 5m pop had the same base and food consumption as a viral as a terran etc. the only difference? Miners make a ton more per person. How does lowering that per pop income suddenly make base pr unfair for miners?
Of course, the problem is that hoarders tend to be agri/non tax based empires with lower PRs, thus creating a natural tendency for the food market to have low prices. This can sometimes be bad for food producers
However, when one, or several of these hoarders get board with the game and quit, you end up with a massive market imbalance. Food skyrockets. I`m just tired of seeing boom and bust GC economics over and over again. Things just keep getting worse since the # of players we have seem to declining.
You really want to fix the economy? My suggestion is to decrease comm mod on terran/viral empires by about 1/2. Increase the CG consumption on tax terrans/virals by a factor of 2-3x, so these guys can actually make more money eating food if they wanted to as long as CGs are available. Also, make black market CGs available for the initial period and give the miners some time to pump out the CGs to adjust to new demand. We have to force comm empires to contribute the economy, or you can take another hit in your income. Shouldn`t make a huge difference, comm empires unless hoarding massive BW levels of land suck anyways.
However, when one, or several of these hoarders get board with the game and quit, you end up with a massive market imbalance. Food skyrockets. I`m just tired of seeing boom and bust GC economics over and over again. Things just keep getting worse since the # of players we have seem to declining.
You really want to fix the economy? My suggestion is to decrease comm mod on terran/viral empires by about 1/2. Increase the CG consumption on tax terrans/virals by a factor of 2-3x, so these guys can actually make more money eating food if they wanted to as long as CGs are available. Also, make black market CGs available for the initial period and give the miners some time to pump out the CGs to adjust to new demand. We have to force comm empires to contribute the economy, or you can take another hit in your income. Shouldn`t make a huge difference, comm empires unless hoarding massive BW levels of land suck anyways.
EE was talking about decreasing the tax mod for miners guys, which is why I commented. Currently the base PR system is fair. But it wouldn`t be if what EEs suggestion is all. God you guys will just post a comment at ANYTHING without even reading the whole post
"The same agri empire that produces 3 million food does`t have to depop due to base PR issues, why the hell do I have to?"
Because in most situations you are making far more than that agri empire.
Because in most situations you are making far more than that agri empire.
Altho I will say admin ore posts MIGHT be good...but still have the hoarding issue.
And that`s part of the handicap you chose when u went tax. It sounds to me like u want the income of a taxer without the handicap which is just lol. U want tax to be crazy easy go try uc.
grantweep, please don`t bypass the filter, but I agree with you, repopping for me, even on RT can be a real task, since it`s not that easy for me to explore for ore due to planet count, and the amount on the market is little, if any. On TB it can only be worse.
@JJ
I hate it when people tell me to depop when I say I have high base PR.
This is bull$hit, ore is NOT plentiful on TB, and why should I have to depop anyways? Let`s say I eat 3 million food. The same agri empire that produces 3 million food does`t have to depop due to base PR issues, why the hell do I have to?
I hate it when people tell me to depop when I say I have high base PR.
This is bull$hit, ore is NOT plentiful on TB, and why should I have to depop anyways? Let`s say I eat 3 million food. The same agri empire that produces 3 million food does`t have to depop due to base PR issues, why the hell do I have to?
@ grant: If your base pr is REALLY that much of a concern, your definitely making tons more than you need anyway. That said, the solution is simple: less pop.
@ thread: in a gc filled with more players this would be a laughable not-smart idea. As it is, it seems pretty required to me and I know for a fact others *cough* see the same need. Is it a good idea? No. is it necessary? Yes. Food wall at $40 or whatever is high enough so miners don`t make money is fine and food minimum at 5 is plenty high enough. Mineral posts are meh as they`ll just get hoarded by big established incomes. Miner econ rework is a VERY good idea. Keep them the richest (which is far from hard) but they don`t need an insanely easily attainable godly income relative to land/clusters.
@ thread: in a gc filled with more players this would be a laughable not-smart idea. As it is, it seems pretty required to me and I know for a fact others *cough* see the same need. Is it a good idea? No. is it necessary? Yes. Food wall at $40 or whatever is high enough so miners don`t make money is fine and food minimum at 5 is plenty high enough. Mineral posts are meh as they`ll just get hoarded by big established incomes. Miner econ rework is a VERY good idea. Keep them the richest (which is far from hard) but they don`t need an insanely easily attainable godly income relative to land/clusters.
EE: the problem is base PR. If they made base PR equal for all economies then it would be much more justifyable to nerf miner incomes. (ofc, miners still have to loyalty: read ->> one planet can take weeks to loyalty on some TB servers!)
So, if you could find a way to make base PR fair, I`m all for decreasing that delicious tax mod on aminers. Otherwise it`s just not fair that I play tax miner on most servers and my base PR is a HUGE restriction on the amount of fun I can have with the game.
So, if you could find a way to make base PR fair, I`m all for decreasing that delicious tax mod on aminers. Otherwise it`s just not fair that I play tax miner on most servers and my base PR is a HUGE restriction on the amount of fun I can have with the game.
Well first off let me clear up some things, This isn`t and won`t be just for RT, it`s not so one player can play. it can and would be for all servers, though there would have to be different limitations for other servers.
Two, yes having max price cap on food would be lovely, but it`s something we can`t do, unless stephen has a change of heart, aside from making a rule out of thin air that there is no way we could enforce.
I`m pretty sure, my memory is foggy, but the BM is only works on RT and the DM. and it`s broken... keeping that in mind there is no way for us to post anything above the max prices so any mineral post would have to be at max price as well with ore. typically speaking from past experiences on rt if we could post minerals at BM prices only the poor who needed them would buy them because i`d say in the past about 80% of the hoarders just bide their time until a player posted at 1k.
so yeah that`s options we can`t really explore.
Now my personal input. I don`t think having us interfere in the market will work. anything not automated is doomed to fail. I also have thinking along the lines of Balzac, that you choose the race and the econ path you should deal with it. If your agri and food won`t go above 5 weather it out or restart. IF your tax and there`s no food then same thing. i also think it will be nearly impossible for us to come up with a solution as to what is the right price boundaries to post at. but if we can figure enough things out i believe it`s worth a try at least maybe just for a week. i`ve been wrong plenty of times in the past so perhaps it`s just what GC needs.
Another problem i`ve seen is it would appear that Miners make way to much money, despite the income path. Even Mineral miners they usually hoard most of their minerals until they need money then they simply buy minerals of the types they don`t make further depleting minerals on the game Also i feel that their tax mod is to high. it`s hard not to make money as miner and there is little to no danger aside from losing a mining cluster here or there. perhaps miner econ could use reworking, it just something else to think about.
Edited by EphemeralEternity on 2012-04-22
Two, yes having max price cap on food would be lovely, but it`s something we can`t do, unless stephen has a change of heart, aside from making a rule out of thin air that there is no way we could enforce.
I`m pretty sure, my memory is foggy, but the BM is only works on RT and the DM. and it`s broken... keeping that in mind there is no way for us to post anything above the max prices so any mineral post would have to be at max price as well with ore. typically speaking from past experiences on rt if we could post minerals at BM prices only the poor who needed them would buy them because i`d say in the past about 80% of the hoarders just bide their time until a player posted at 1k.
so yeah that`s options we can`t really explore.
Now my personal input. I don`t think having us interfere in the market will work. anything not automated is doomed to fail. I also have thinking along the lines of Balzac, that you choose the race and the econ path you should deal with it. If your agri and food won`t go above 5 weather it out or restart. IF your tax and there`s no food then same thing. i also think it will be nearly impossible for us to come up with a solution as to what is the right price boundaries to post at. but if we can figure enough things out i believe it`s worth a try at least maybe just for a week. i`ve been wrong plenty of times in the past so perhaps it`s just what GC needs.
Another problem i`ve seen is it would appear that Miners make way to much money, despite the income path. Even Mineral miners they usually hoard most of their minerals until they need money then they simply buy minerals of the types they don`t make further depleting minerals on the game Also i feel that their tax mod is to high. it`s hard not to make money as miner and there is little to no danger aside from losing a mining cluster here or there. perhaps miner econ could use reworking, it just something else to think about.
Edited by EphemeralEternity on 2012-04-22
D
Deathroe
I appreciate, very much, that Game Admins and Staff are approaching this difficult subject!
I Think small steps that have the largest impact should be tried first, like others have posted put a cap on food!! Just like CGs! Any food producer is making a killing above $25.
Blackmarket for minerals and ore - at higher prices, I think this has worked well in the past.
The Goal here is not to favour any one type of race or player style, its to promote Game Play, the ability to use turns, to keep empires moving/growing. When game play is restricted (there are no minerals to buy) then GC grinds to a halt, etc, etc.
Thanks again for trying to improve GC!!!
I Think small steps that have the largest impact should be tried first, like others have posted put a cap on food!! Just like CGs! Any food producer is making a killing above $25.
Blackmarket for minerals and ore - at higher prices, I think this has worked well in the past.
The Goal here is not to favour any one type of race or player style, its to promote Game Play, the ability to use turns, to keep empires moving/growing. When game play is restricted (there are no minerals to buy) then GC grinds to a halt, etc, etc.
Thanks again for trying to improve GC!!!
R
Reaper
I do wonder who is posting this much food in a day.
18 999,999,999 47
18 999,999,999 47
19 495,971,955 45
19 999,999,999 45
19 999,999,999 46
+ more
When there hasnt been food in some time.
18 999,999,999 47
18 999,999,999 47
19 495,971,955 45
19 999,999,999 45
19 999,999,999 46
+ more
When there hasnt been food in some time.
B
Balzac
my guess is that we shouldn`t tweak anything at the market.
if people choose the way of income they choose , is because they think its the best on the condition they are playing, if for some reason something is missing or out of their reach , too bad .
speak with people to find something , or choose a fed where people make their needs fullfill ???
if people choose the way of income they choose , is because they think its the best on the condition they are playing, if for some reason something is missing or out of their reach , too bad .
speak with people to find something , or choose a fed where people make their needs fullfill ???
That is bs to ever post anything besides food on market from a non player that is not the black market. I believe the only discussion should be about food. Period. Minerals black market is fine. Or black market is fine too. Desperate for food? I don`t see a problem with a food wall at 45$. But really only done once every certain time period! I`d there its enough black market ore for the tax empires to re populate there should be no real problem. It is when there is literally no food when it sucks.
Black market for everything else 2x prices and food wall at 40+ I think 45 is good so miners can`t always be winning, just playing.
Black market for everything else 2x prices and food wall at 40+ I think 45 is good so miners can`t always be winning, just playing.
R
Reaper
Other solution! Everyone go guard! Let the little bots post mins at infinity and we can all hit each other! with no need to buy food. sound good? =D
I think its the wrong way of solving this issue.
If we dont want food to be able to go above 20 then set that as the upper limit.
On the other hand i think the availability of minerals would be a lot better if we allowed prices to go to 5k instead. This would ensure that people dont stock it up when they dont know what to do with their money.
Having minerals posted by bots would make it a lot less attractive to be a mineral miner - and lets face it there are not too many out there by now. So I fear the mineral miners would dissappear completely if this happens. And then the mineral market would require admins to post all the time instead.
If we dont want food to be able to go above 20 then set that as the upper limit.
On the other hand i think the availability of minerals would be a lot better if we allowed prices to go to 5k instead. This would ensure that people dont stock it up when they dont know what to do with their money.
Having minerals posted by bots would make it a lot less attractive to be a mineral miner - and lets face it there are not too many out there by now. So I fear the mineral miners would dissappear completely if this happens. And then the mineral market would require admins to post all the time instead.
Food At High Prices will also encourage more food producers to start Up It will work Its self out in the end
R
Reaper
The market is meant to be a player managed interface, using bot`s to post at lower prices is just to help some you guys out not to pay more since i am pretty someone complained. I have yet to see any game where they would dear to intervene with the in game market. If people cannot except the prices or the way the offer/demand works then i am sorry to say this but the real world works the same, you going to go and ask for lower prices just cause you can`t pay them or should i say Do Not want to pay them? i don`t think so.
Don;t touch the market, it is not a risk free area, people choose to go tax or aggri, it was their choice to take a risk at having to buy food from the market, they have to deal with it.
And otherwise you want cheaper food? buff the maru/coll production.
Don;t touch the market, it is not a risk free area, people choose to go tax or aggri, it was their choice to take a risk at having to buy food from the market, they have to deal with it.
And otherwise you want cheaper food? buff the maru/coll production.
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